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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Gun Makers
      #50218 - 18/02/06 05:50 AM

I wasn't too sure where to post this but I thought here it would have greater discussion.

At the Vegas show I had a talk with Peterb about Searcy and how he is growing and needing tradesmen, so I asked if there was an apprenticeship program in the US to be a gun maker? I classify a gun maker as someone who can take a chunk of metal and wood, and produce a fine firearm from them. Buying a threaded barrel, screwing it on an action and headspacing it does not constitute the title of "gunmaker". I can do that.

If there is not one, should one be set up? Should there be a prerequisite that you have to be a TQ machinist before being accepted into the program? What would be the prerequisite be for those having skills carving wood or engraving? I am in no way taking anything away from those that are quite talented that were "self taught", or had a peer that guided them, but lack a piece of paper.

With all the CNC machines and mass production of today, is there a need for a program? Most of the population will buy a Ruger #1 when looking for a falling block, and not seek the services of Martini and Hagn or others (price is the main factor of any purchase, I do not care how much you make).

Pete informed me that Purdey had the title of "stocker" when he was working for Manton, which meant that he could do it all. Is there stll an appreticeship in Europe? How does one get the foot in the door?

I am not interested in becoming a gun maker, but I hope the art of gun making does not go extinct.



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It's the journey, not the destination.

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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Gun Makers [Re: AdamTayler]
      #50219 - 18/02/06 05:55 AM

For the past few weeks one of the two cable hunting channels has a special called "The Guns of Italy". During the discussions and tours of the factory they said they have "in house" apprenticeship programs. In the U.S. there are gunsmithing courses offered by the different technical schools. That's all I have ever heard of.

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No good deed goes unpunished

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Gun Makers [Re: AdamTayler]
      #50220 - 18/02/06 05:59 AM


Adam,

H&H and I think a few others in Europe have
apprenticeship programs (Suhl etc).

In the 60's - 70's (H&H) found it hard to get workers/
apprectices but I believe a pogram was put in place like
careers etc and the situation has now alleviated itself to
an extent.

Re CNC, IMHO, it doesn't really matter how the excess metal is
taken off, it is how it is finished that is important and this is where
the real skill is to be found. We seem to forget that barrels have been
machined since day 1 and it is the final boring, striking that is
so important.

Too many people who are machinist's call themselves gunsmiths !

Good luck.

500 Nitro

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Gun Makers [Re: 500Nitro]
      #50226 - 18/02/06 07:23 AM

You cannot beat the apprenticeship system for how a future gunny is trained. This does not in itself mean they will be great as some will struggle to be mediocre no matter how they are trained. But this system subjects them to 200 years of past experience in every area of gunmaking.

In the US, there is no such system. The best gunsmiths are the ones trained as machinists first.

Our guild system is a bit of a misnomer. There are members of the guild who are just checkerers (but great ones). There are ones who do only metal work and those who do only wood work. Some I do not consider gunmakers. Some I do not even consider stockers. One big name fellow (thanks to his writing skills) seems to be merely a finisher. How difficult is it to take a standard classic stock, bondo it up to be "your" design, and have Darcy Echols or someone else cut and inlet it for some action in question. In my estimation, that makes the "gunmaker" only a finisher.

The old suggestion of "Take that gun to a qualified gunsmith" for whatever is wrong with it is difficult when it is a double. There are very few qualified gunnies in the US for doubles. Frankly probably less than a dozen.

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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Gun Makers [Re: Peterb]
      #50240 - 18/02/06 03:19 PM

The apprentice system in Victoria gives a new gunsmith a Fitter and Turner trade qualification.

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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AdamTayler
.375 member


Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.
Re: Gun Makers [Re: RLI]
      #50244 - 18/02/06 03:32 PM

Steve,

Can you elaborate on this program?

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Gun Makers [Re: AdamTayler]
      #50246 - 18/02/06 04:11 PM

Adam,
A apprentice here in Victoria (rest of Australia is similar) is indentured to a tradesman who has worked for 12 years in his trade in this case a Gunsmith for 4 sometimes 5 years in this time he learns the art of gunsmithing and also he goes to technical college to learn other modules CNC machining, lathe and milling work etc but the qualification he recieves at the end is a trade in "Fitter & Turner" but the system is changing for the worse I believe.

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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