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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
Loc: From Norway, but living in Swi...
What big bore to go for....
      #216336 - 08/09/12 04:32 PM



Hello all.

I am a great fan of the 9.3x62, use it for moose huning here in Norway and it is just great.

But, in Africa, I feel I will be needing something a bit larger.
Yes, I am sure a 9.3 buller of 286 gr will do fine, but it is not legal, 375 is the mi right?
And, even if it is legal, it is on the low side...

Am planing my first safari and Cap is on the list. The dream of a big bore is now more real than ever. For sure the 9.3x62 will come and also my new Mannlicher 1903 in 6.5x54. But, the big bore....???

What caliber? 10.75x68? 404? 416 Rigby? 450 Rigby? 495 A-Square or....

I am not sure, but a 450 caliber have more bullets to choosee from, so cheap traing bullets are around.
But, the 404 is a classic....I also like the 10.75x68, yes it is odd.

The rifle will be made, if it can be done, on a standard M98 action.
Not sure if the Rigby caliber will fitt....

All help, tip is great for me.

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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DarylS
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #216370 - 09/09/12 02:30 AM

10.75X68 would be my choice - or a .416 Ruger, or a .416 on the .376 Styer case - or a .416 Taylor.

I'm too old and beat up to shoot the .45's now.

Since you are looking at .416's and .45's, I kept my responce to those.

I would personally just as soon take my 9.3x62 or if laws required .375 or larger, my .375/06IMP. It will drive 300gr. at almost 2,500fps and 270's at 2,700fps, both 100fps higher than original .375H&H ballistics of 1912. One can always slow them down that 100fps for lower pressure and still have real power and flatter trajectory for the plains game than the .416's or .450's can deliver.

Being easier to shoot accurately, pin-point accuracy makes up for any loss in perceived 'power'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39247
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: DarylS]
      #216375 - 09/09/12 02:54 AM

.404 Jeffery will fit your classic armoury of 6.5x54 and 9.3x62.

It can be loaded to similar to the 10.75x68. Original ballistics were around 2100 fps but now two or three hundred fps are possible with a 400 gr projectile.

I think the .416 Rigby would be too long.

A 9.3x62 is legal in some places.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Huvius
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: NitroX]
      #216376 - 09/09/12 02:59 AM

Agree with the 404.

IMO, it is the best DG cartridge to be used in a standard length M98.
Heck, that is exactly what it was designed for!!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: Huvius]
      #216398 - 09/09/12 02:02 PM

.458 Winchester is a great round
Very versatile, to include all from 500gr stoppers to 350gr spitzers at 2700+

I really like mine and the 98 is good to go.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #216406 - 09/09/12 03:19 PM

Quote:

What caliber? 10.75x68? 404? 416 Rigby? 450 Rigby? 495 A-Square or....

I am not sure, but a 450 caliber have more bullets to choosee from, so cheap traing bullets are around.
But, the 404 is a classic....I also like the 10.75x68, yes it is odd.

The rifle will be made, if it can be done, on a standard M98 action.
Not sure if the Rigby caliber will fitt....

All help, tip is great for me.



This thread may be useful:
Moddifying a M 98 for 425 WR or 404J?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
Posts: 262
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: NitroX]
      #216450 - 10/09/12 02:32 AM



Hello all and thanks for the good info.

Thanks for the link about the M98 modification.

A 404 is interesting.

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 396
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #216639 - 12/09/12 08:54 PM

Hello vegard dino,

I aquired an used Frankonia Favorit in .404 Rimless on a DWM-98 system.
It shoots good with open sights, I chronographed my loads for 702 m/sec for a 400grs bullet.
It feeds without any problems the bullets of Woodleigh SPRN and FMJ and RWS FMJ

...and is intended for use on a cape buffalo :-)

my suggestions for modification of a 98based rifle in 404 are:
- larger magazine floor plate to have at least a four-round mag capacity
- shorten the barrel to 58cm
- glass bedding the action
- two cross bolts
- good trigger in a steel housing, not aluminum
- horizontal three position safety (Win70)
- and a nice, leather covered, broad recoil pad...

best regards
Rolf

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HendrikNZ
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Reged: 20/12/10
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: Rolf]
      #216663 - 13/09/12 10:13 AM

+1 for the 404

Its a classic and works great on Buff with 400grn Barnes and other more traditional bullets

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39247
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: vegard_dino]
      #216670 - 13/09/12 02:21 PM

Quote:


What caliber? 10.75x68? 404? 416 Rigby? 450 Rigby? 495 A-Square or....




Of course if you want something a lot bigger, one of the larger cartridges which fit in a standard Mauser with modifications might be the go.

Does the .500 Jeffery fit a standard action? I think it does. Someone can correct me otherwise.

I don't know the .495 A-Square, but if it does ...'

A 9.3x62 plus a .500 would make two very useful rifles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 396
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: NitroX]
      #216685 - 13/09/12 09:13 PM

Gentlemen,

the 500 Jeffery fits in a standard 98 action, but I do not consider it the best solution.

My dear friend Fritz has a 500 Jeffery from Reimer Johannsen biuildt on a magnum action, feeding is perfect, and the cartrige can be used with the 570grs Woddleigh bullets crimping groove.

Mr. Hirschle in Blaubeuren/Bavaria is producing 500 Jeffery rifles on modified standard-length 98 systems, and the two rifles I could examine fed standard cartridges (535grs RN SP and FMJ) also without problem.

If cost is not to be considered; I would recommend a magnum system for more weight in the system area and therefore better handling.

best regards
Rolf

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Rolf
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Posts: 396
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: Rolf]
      #216687 - 13/09/12 09:15 PM

and yes, I have to pay more attention to my writing mistakes before sending...
Rolf

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hunter_angler
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Reged: 24/03/10
Posts: 104
Loc: Grand Marais, Michigan (home i...
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: Rolf]
      #216689 - 13/09/12 10:26 PM

Per Daryl's suggestion the .416 Ruger might be a good solution, if you don't mind it being a new kid on the DG block. Fits in a standard action and is beltless, so the case diameter allows for more capacity. Handloaded with 450 gr bullets, a .416 is definitely up to any task.

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: hunter_angler]
      #216919 - 18/09/12 04:35 PM

Surely it depends on what you're after. A .416 Rigby might be too much for dik-dik. On the other hand, the largest elephant ever was shot with a .416 Rigby, so how much bigger do you really need? It's flatter shooting than many larger calibers. It can be built on a standard Mauser 98 action, but usually isn't because the receiver ring has to be partly milled away to get the bullets past it and magazine capacity will be limited.

A lot of African PH's swear by the 9,3x62 with the right bullets and, if you're confident with it, why not? One thing I have found is that, if you're presented with a situation your brain has trouble processing, such as being charged, you tend to do things automatically as you have trained to do. So if your favourite rifle has a tang safety, that's what you'll be subconsciously pushing instead of that nice 3-position safety on your new but not as yet much used custom 40 caliber. In the few seconds you have to get this error sorted, that could be important.

A .404 with modern brass would not only do the job but would have, I presume, the same (or similar) action length as the 9,3x62 and could be fitted out in the same style on a Mauser 98 receiver. If you are going to change something basic, like action length, safety, stock style etc., get plenty of practise so it's automatic, even just mounting, dry firing and re-cocking on the shoulder. But get off to the range too and try different distances, moving targets and etc. You might consider looking for a practise bullet with much the same POI as your premium ones.

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hunter_angler
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Reged: 24/03/10
Posts: 104
Loc: Grand Marais, Michigan (home i...
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #216933 - 18/09/12 10:44 PM

Nothing more classic in a bolt action than the .416 Rigby. And better bullet selection I think than in .423.

--------------------
old school rimmy

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bigmaxx
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Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: hunter_angler]
      #216954 - 19/09/12 02:29 AM

I am a big fan of the .458 lott caliber. It allows you to shoot the lott as well as the winchester magnum ammo. It also lets you choose from an array of bullets, including the 500 grain for large dangerous game. Ammo availability is always a plus!

--------------------
One day at a time...

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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2111
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #217008 - 20/09/12 12:20 AM

All around the 375H&H is going to cover more bases for a "One rifle hunt" than any other cartridge in my opinion

If you are going to take 2 rifles you might stay with your 9,3 and add a 404 Jeffery or a 416 in Ruger, Remington, Rigby, Taylor or any shell that throws a 400 grain bullet at 2250 FPS to 2400 FPS.

Remember that the "Heavy Hammers" such as the hot 45s and the 500s 505, 577 and 600 are best for game that is already wounded, and are not billed as “standard hunting weapons”. They work fine for regular hunting, but in my experience, dead is dead, and the 577 Nitro will not kill a Buffalo much faster than a 375 H&H if the 1st bullet is placed correctly. But most men don’t practice enough to shoot the big guns as well as the medium size guns and therefore don’t shoot them as accurately. A well placed 404 Jeff is WAY better than a 505 Gibbs that hits “pretty close”

If you were backing up a hunter and only shoot when game was already wounded, then is when you would want to carry a “bigger hammer”

Speaking for myself only, I have no use anymore for rifles larger than the 404 and 416s, and in fact I would seldom take one of them when I can take my 375H&H.

But that's just me.......... Others may have different likes and dislikes.

Edited by szihn (20/09/12 12:21 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: szihn]
      #217011 - 20/09/12 02:05 AM

ditto, Steve's post.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DaggaBoyBlog
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Reged: 28/02/12
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: DarylS]
      #218200 - 20/10/12 01:14 AM

Quote:

I am a big fan of the .458 lott caliber. It allows you to shoot the lott as well as the winchester magnum ammo. It also lets you choose from an array of bullets, including the 500 grain for large dangerous game. Ammo availability is always a plus!



As a factory chambering the Lott is a pretty good option these days. I hunt with a .450 Ackley Magnum loaded with 500gr Woodleighs and it has been potent on buffalo, giraffe and eland. Then you can load 300gr bullets when you get home and you have a very nice rifle for hunting at home. Best of luck mate.

--------------------
DaggaBoy Blog - Hunting adventures of an ordinary bloke... http://www.daggaboyblog.com.au/

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gryphon
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: DaggaBoyBlog]
      #218223 - 20/10/12 08:27 PM

460 Weatherby,dont muck around with the others.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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grandveneur
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Re: What big bore to go for.... [Re: gryphon]
      #218224 - 20/10/12 09:30 PM

Quote:

460 Weatherby,dont muck around with the others.



For hunters who can shoot it accurate , a very good allround cartridge for Africa !

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