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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
The 600 Overkill....
      #200918 - 28/01/12 10:14 PM

The 600 Overkill was designed by scientist Robert Garnick of Las Vegas, Nevada. It was intended to take full advantage of the dimensions of the CZ550 action in order to fit into that action the largest cartridge that could be accommodated. With moderate alterations, a CZ550 can be made to accommodate 2 cartridges of 600 Overkill in the magazine plus one in the chamber. Using brass solids bullets, the 600 Overkill will penetrate 6 feet into an oak log. Even elephant skulls are not as dense as oak, assuring that the 600 Overkill pushing 900 grain solid bullets at 2400 f.p.s. will offer excellent penetration on any game.

The 600 Overkill case originated from the 600 Nitro Express. The rim was removed from the 600 Nitro Express and a belt was added for headspacing purposes. A 0.640" rebated rim was cut on the case - the same size used by the .505 Gibbs. The case walls were left straight for a 3.0 inch case and a 3.75 inch cartridge overall length. Custom 3 groove barrels with 1:16 twist are made by Pac-Nor Barrels of Brookings, Oregon. A 3 groove barrel with a 1:16" twist was chosen to keep pressures low and permit the cartridge to achieve higher velocities than would be otherwise possible. This scheme seems to have worked because with the same powder charge and bullet, the 600 Overkill achieves about 75 f.p.s. more velocity than the 600 Nitro Express.


The 600 Overkill has the ability to push a 900 grain bullet at more than 2400 f.p.s. if the shooter can withstand the recoil and maintain his grip on the gun. At that level of power, as the bullet spins down the barrel, the rifle is torqued in the opposite direction, tending to twist the forearm of the rifle out of the shooter's hand. Brass for the 600 Overkill is available on a special order basis from Dieter Horneber (www.huelsen-horneber.com) of Germany. Rifles may be ordered from American Hunting Rifles for not much more than US$3000. For the big bore fan who needs the biggest affordable big bore, the 600 Overkill based on a CZ550 action is for him.


Example of 600 Overkill loads
900 grain Woodleigh FMJ 2150 f.p.s. Controllable recoil when fired in a 14 pound rifle with 3 mercury recoil reducers and a muzzle brake.


2400 f.p.s. The forearm is difficult to hold onto at this velocity due to torque created by the bullet spinning down the bore.

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ripp]
      #200920 - 28/01/12 10:19 PM

I read that the need for a muzzle brake won't make it popular with PHs, according to Doctari.

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ben]
      #200924 - 28/01/12 10:51 PM

I am guessing a muzzle break would harm its sales to PH's...

just copied this off of an article on wikipedia..

This cartridge was intended to be the largest bullet that was able to fit in the CZ-550,[1] and was designed specifically for the purpose of elephant hunting. The CZ-550 is able to fit 2 cartridges, with slight alterations. With solid brass bullets, the .600 overkill is able to penetrate 6 feet (1.8 m) into solid oak.

6 FT of solid oak is some serious penetration...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ripp]
      #200925 - 28/01/12 11:23 PM

Detached retinas etc etc, why ? Use a .500 ! I reckon the foot lbs recoil on that is quite a lot more than I weigh, best, Mike

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458Win
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Reged: 15/12/06
Posts: 340
Loc: Alaska
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #200950 - 29/01/12 06:30 AM

Here is a movie of my 110 # daughter firing one with a muzzle brake




And a photo of the recovered 900 gr Woodleigh compared with a 570 TSX fired from my 505 gibbs, two Hornday factory interbonds from my 458 Win and 416 Rem and a 220 Nosler partition from a 30-06.




The 600 is impressive but impractical for most hunting.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: 458Win]
      #200954 - 29/01/12 06:49 AM

I admire your daughter .458, I wouldn´t shoot one unless it was for a decent size bet, best, Mike

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458Win
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #200960 - 29/01/12 07:35 AM

I didn't have any urge to shoot it either -- but she immediately asked to shoot it a second time and did.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: 458Win]
      #200962 - 29/01/12 08:14 AM

I've read that lighter weight allows the body to move, ie: stepping backwards to absorb a lot of the recoil. I once shot a rifle that did that to me - I didn't think getting spun around a circle with it was such a big advantage and wouldn't have fired another for $100.00. That was in 1974 when $100.00 would buy me 2,800 6mm bullets from Kesselring's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: DarylS]
      #200965 - 29/01/12 08:31 AM

My reaction is composed of 'scary and why bother'.
Just what is it with the people that own these sort of calibres? Is it a power thing?
Especially when all the big game animals in the world have been taken with far lesser calibres and by many members on this forum.
I will sit and listen all day to a bloke that has hunted extensively on wild animals and has taken them with such as the 600 OK but there's no tinkers cuss for a bloke that 'owns one back home,its in the safe' as where one would imagine most of them dwell.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: gryphon]
      #200973 - 29/01/12 09:34 AM

458Win! You sure raised your daughter right! Good on you and her!

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ben]
      #200982 - 29/01/12 10:59 AM

I'd definitely have one if given to me, and I'd hope brass/bullets/dies and a keg of powder came with it.

The idea is neat, such a giant bit of energy and huge bullets - but I just don't have a practical use for one.
Still, if y'all find one that needs a home send it to my hill out here in NV!







Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Ash
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: tinker]
      #201054 - 29/01/12 11:12 PM

I don't think I'd want to touch one of them off any time soon.
But heck if anyone knows where to find a live round in Aus give us a PM! Would be good for the collection.
I imagine they look rather impressive, the .600 Nitro certainly does.
Gryphon - I'd love to hear peoples experiences of hunting with these guns as well. Anyone know of anyone using one?

Cheers,
Troy.

--------------------
.


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458Win
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: DarylS]
      #201071 - 30/01/12 05:08 AM

My thoughts on the old theory that lighter people absorb recoil better than heavier people is that if it were true, lightweight boxers would do well against heavy weights.

--------------------
Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either never used one - or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com


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Con
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Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ash]
      #201148 - 30/01/12 08:22 PM

Quote:

I don't think I'd want to touch one of them off any time soon.
But heck if anyone knows where to find a live round in Aus give us a PM! Would be good for the collection.
I imagine they look rather impressive, the .600 Nitro certainly does.
Gryphon - I'd love to hear peoples experiences of hunting with these guns as well. Anyone know of anyone using one?

Cheers,
Troy.




There is one in Australia ... it's at the stock work stage with the metal work probably 95% complete. Being built for 'shits and giggles', I'm the schmuck that volunteered to help regulate the open sights.
Cheers...
Con


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gryphon
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: 458Win]
      #201155 - 30/01/12 09:28 PM

Quote:

My thoughts on the old theory that lighter people absorb recoil better than heavier people is that if it were true, lightweight boxers would do well against heavy weights.




Very good!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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andrevannibos
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Reged: 22/11/07
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: gryphon]
      #201175 - 31/01/12 01:27 AM

Should the local whale population feel intimidated? I sure as hell am!

--------------------
Andre


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: gryphon]
      #201187 - 31/01/12 03:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

My thoughts on the old theory that lighter people absorb recoil better than heavier people is that if it were true, lightweight boxers would do well against heavy weights.




Very good!





Having been in the ring a time or two, can attest, that doesnt go so well for the lighter one of the two..

Those bigger guys hurt like hell...


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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fourbore
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Reged: 28/03/10
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ripp]
      #201220 - 31/01/12 08:29 AM

I question the logic of the 600Ok and after some heated debate on another forum, I have come to the conclusion this is primarily a bragging rights round. Before you accuse me of stating the obvious, several owners vehemently argue this was not the case (ie the OK was practical hunting round), so its remains just IMHO.

Before, I say more, I certainly see no harm in owning a gun for fun or bragging rights and probably 50% of the guns I own have little (truth be told) hunting or defense value. This all looks like just more good clean shooting fun to me. I saw some images posted of pigs shot with the Ok. That sure looked like some great fun. As it might be with 350 gr bullets in a 458 win mag.

The way I see it, the 500 A square and 550 mag had already been developed based on the 460 Wby case. And it turns out several 577 were also done on custom straight sided belted cases. All of these could be chambered in a CZ550 within a "staggered" magazine and loaded (or loaded down) to traditionally accepted (IMHO reasonable) elephant/buffalo hunting ballistics.

In a guest for something, new and bigger, the 600 Ok was born. IMHO. We also had the 577 Trex as well as all the above mentioned new rounds. I think the goal was to beat the Trex and be flat out as powerful as possible. Why wiki would state that elephant hunting had anything to do with this idea is a mystery to me?

The round is highly rebated (and pretty fat) which necessitates a single column feed. It it really a 2 shot, unless you can take pains to open the floor plate and bottom feed another round. You can see the notorious video of what happens when you fire a Trex without a muzzle brake. The Trex is driving 750 grains at 2400 fps. Imagine what the effect would be driving 900 grains at 2400fps, unbraked! In practical terms a muzzle brake is needed. Who wants to stand next to that in the game field?


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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: fourbore]
      #201224 - 31/01/12 09:28 AM

Sums it up nicely... all of the big game taken in the world have been taken with far lesser calibres..
Give me the mate that can shoot accurately with a lesser calibre any day over the bloke that squints his eyes and flinches with the biggest calibres.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: gryphon]
      #201241 - 31/01/12 01:34 PM

I see no need to justify any aspect of any rifle.
A rifle is a rifle, and I do not discriminate.
I've seen some pretty nicely built 600OK rifles, and as I said before I'd be happy to take one if offered to me - and I'd hope it came with handloading equipment and supplies!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: tinker]
      #201291 - 31/01/12 11:16 PM

For the fun aspect I can understand it (if thats your idea of fun !) but to try and make a case for it as a "game" cartridge is a bit silly in my opinion, what does it weigh again ??, same to be said for the .700 NE or other daft cartridges. "Only good for driven Mastadon" in the words of the man who designed the rifle i.e. no one is going to carry that 10-15 miles a day in the country, maybe if you were as big as Kamilaroi mistyped you might be able to best

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Ash
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #201316 - 01/02/12 08:00 AM

If you kept the velocity to NE levels, and the rifles to a similar weight then it's as valid as the .600 Nitro as a game cartridge, if you can call the Nitro a valid round nowadays.

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.


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fourbore
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: Ash]
      #201319 - 01/02/12 10:33 AM

I agree, if one considers the 600NE a good choice for elephant then the Ok could be loaded down. The 600 doubles run, what? 15-16 pounds? I dont think either field or ballistic requirements to kill an elephant was part of the design consideration for the Ok. Although, I maybe wrong in which case it appears the muzzle brake was a key ingredient to make the gun manageable.

It seems to me, starting with the CZ550 magnum action and blank sheet of paper one might have found a sweet spot to take best advantage of the action, magazine capacity and still satisfy extreme BIG bore hunting desires. Good engineering tries to balance all the variables for the best outcome, not just push one parameter to the limit. A little compromise here and there might result in a staggered magazine, a manageable weight without a brake, little or no rebate rim. Not practical for the 99%, but a lot closer to what passes for a DG magazine rifle, and with a major attitude!


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tinker
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: fourbore]
      #201326 - 01/02/12 03:42 PM

Yup.


I'd break rocks with one here on my hill all the frickin time if only one of you guys will get off the crapper and send me one in the mail...


...in the meantime MrMcMillan will have to do.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Re: The 600 Overkill.... [Re: tinker]
      #201340 - 01/02/12 07:49 PM

OK Mike,

Big shame job on my behalf! FWIW I believe that RockDoc (Chris) has a 600NE Farkie replica underway and perhaps completed by Damien Connolly by now. Its on a set of forgings(?) from John Saunders and Wal Winfer back in the day.

I'd love to see it.

As Taylor posited anything sbove 500Nitro is inefficient.

Yiyaalu

K.

Edited by kamilaroi (01/02/12 07:50 PM)


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