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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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2152hq
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Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA

What is this? A sporterized 88 or a ?
#369806 - 03/10/22 10:56 PM

I picked up this Mannlicher/ Haenel mfgr carbine.
I bought it for the sight, but really like the action type as well.
I spotted it for that on a dealers display and thought it was an 88 Sporter till I saw the Model 98
style magazine.
Then thought of the 'New Model' (?) Haenel Mannlichers I have with the same M98 magazine and a M98 gas shield bolt shrourd.
This rifle does not have that style bolt shroud though. Just the standard GEW88 style.

The action is Haenel marked on the top of the ring and 1906,
The trigger guard/magazine box is 2 piece (pic). Separate mag box and guard bow.
There is also a plate inside the bow as if to allow different trigger mechanisms to be in place (DST, SST.) Or perhaps there was a DST in there and a conversion to simple single trigger demanded the plate to cover the space.

The action is marked 'Cal 7 ' on the left wall.
Muzzle measures in at .284 with a quick caliper check.
The bbl appears to have had a Mauser style rear sight sleave that solders onto the bbl but is gone now. No rear bbl sight.
The Lyman does rear sight duty.

The bbl is 19+ inches long. Is Mauser military 'step' style.
The stock looks to have been a military and cut down sporterized. There was likely a handguard in place. Smooth steel butt plate w/ short widows peak.

Markings are what you see in the pics.

Any ideas on what the carbine is,,Sporterized Military, A conversion from an 88 to the New/Mod Manlicher magazine style,, rebbl w/a SR Mauser bbl,, or ??

Should make a dandy sporter in any case.

Thanks for any info or guesses.

Some pics..

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9033
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Re: What is this? A sporterized 88 or a ? [Re: 2152hq]
#369814 - 04/10/22 02:38 AM

yes ,this is the big unknown, its a Haenel Model 1900

Haenel Model 1900 and Model 1909 were ubgrades by C.G.Haenel in Suhl of the M 88 action the same like the Mannlicher Schönauer Model 1900 was an ubgrade from the M 88 ( what became later the Model 1903 Mannlicher Schönauer). The reason was the Mauser Model 1898 what makes all other rifles looking very old then.
Kuduae had wrote a little bit about it here

https://www.germanhuntingguns.com/archives/haenel-c-g-of-suhl/

and we have them from time to time in this forum

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/printthread.php?Board=mannlicher&main=319322&type=post

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=05826500&Number=318820&an=0&page=8

Please don't get me wrong but yours looking like a basic version, maybe sporterised by Haenel by using rifles made for military contracts to china or south america. Caliber must be the beloved 7x57 mauser.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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2152hq
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Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA

Re: What is this? A sporterized 88 or a ? [Re: lancaster]
#369822 - 04/10/22 07:52 AM

Thank you for the info and links.
The one thing that confused me most was the lack of the gas shield flange on the bolt shroud.

I have two other Haenel sporters of this type with the split bridge action, the 98 style staggered magazine and the gas flange bolt shroud.

I expected to see the latter feature here also.

FWIW anothr dealer had a military rifle in somewhat sad refinished condition made on this action as well.
It's been around the local show circut for a while. Any markings, if they were on the ring,, are long gone from refinishing. I looked it over and mentioned to the dealer about the Haenel mfg'r & Paraguay contract connection I had read about. He seemed mildly interested.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany

Re: What is this? A sporterized 88 or a ? [Re: 2152hq]
#370015 - 08/10/22 06:10 AM

The features of the Haenel model 1900 were protected by one DRPatent and three DRGMs, registered and protected for 6 years designs.
DRPatent Nr.120862 from April 28, 1900 for the double stack magazine, it’s follower leverwork and the floorplate mounted latch locking into the triggerguard,
DRGM 135556 for the separate gas shield, obviously missing here.
DRGM 135992 for the two-part firing pin. The bolt body contains a tipless striker, while a separate firing pin is mounted inside the bolthead.
DRGM 206216 for the two part bolt stop and ejector housing. The forward housing contains an ejector lever, while a spring and plunger for the ejector is inside the rear bolt stop.

Gas shield, bolthead and ejector housing were all marked “DRGM”. On this rifle you may see the dovetailed slot for the ejector housing, but the housing is missing. As Lyman made #36 receiver sight bases for the M88 action, but not for the Haenel M1900, someone in the USA adapted such an available sight to the Haenel. The Lyman base = bolt stop replacement does not contain the M1900 ejector spring and plunger, so the gunsmith had to design a different solution for the ejector.

“248” is the old gauge number, in use until 1912, for a “7 mm” bore.
The bolt is not original to the rifle. There are no CROWN-crown/N civilian proofmarks on the underside of the handle, complying to the civilian proof service load information. And it is not marked with Haenel’s “star over H” mark, but with the “Crown over SS” factory mark of V.C.Schilling, Suhl. So it is a military M88 carbine bolt. As these are near identical, except for the protected details noted above, to the M1900 bolt, it is easily adaptable to a Haenel M1900, with a bit of file work on bolthead and maybe cocking piece. At least, the M88 type ejector "finger" of the Lyman #36 rear sight base works with a M88 bolt head, but not with a Haenel M1900 one.

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2152hq
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Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA

Re: What is this? A sporterized 88 or a ? [Re: kuduae]
#370020 - 08/10/22 08:51 AM

Thank you that info. I appreciate it.
I did notice the difference in the ejector from my other two Haenel Models. The open space in front of the sight looked odd but I wanted that Sight for the low price the rifle was being offered!

I tried 7x57 factory rounds through the action and they feed, extract and eject just fine.

I may replace the bbl with a longer 'rifle' length when building a sporter. I like the caliber though and the bore on this 19+" bbl is excl'nt.
That '248' gauge number is what the dealer used as the guns Ser# on the paperwork.
No other real ser# on the action.

I pulled the bbl'd action from the wood.
The stock is inletted very closely and done with hand chisels, not just a machine inlet.
Very sharp clean inletting as one would see on the same commercial products of the era.

The stock does look like a cut down Military style with it's sling swivel at the rear of the grip and fitment for a handguard clip around the bbl at the breech.
But I guess it coud be most any version put up to be sold at a time to use up parts and just plain make some cash.

I'm thinking an English style sporter on this one,,the short forend, slender bbl, open sights. That single trigger will fit right in that style.
The stock can be reshaped and slightly altered to make a pattern to be used to turn a final pre-fit in some nice English Walnut I have had standing around for too long.
Like I need another 'project'.
But it'll fill my desire to instead strip down a Steyr Portugese 1896 Navy Short Rifle (6.5x54M/S)for it's bbl'd action to make a similar sporter I've been wanting to do.

Thank you all again for the info, pics, links and feed back.

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