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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 270
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281725 - 30/04/16 02:46 AM

Ahhh...I see. You mentioned the seating depth in a previous post and while I didn't ignore it I didn't make any COAL changes. I seated the base of the PP bullet even with the bottom of the neck. Am I understanding you correctly in that seating the bullet deeper would increase pressure/velocity or increase of powder charge would have the same effect? That would be in line with what I've always understood.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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D_the_D
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281733 - 30/04/16 05:19 AM

I figured you'd only get 1800 at best with that little load.
Mine, like most M46 rifles, have a long throat. I seat a little farther out and use the space for powder. The rifles don't seem to care accuracy wise with the heavier bullets.
With the Norma 232 bullets I seat them about halfway down the neck. They aren't the most accurate to begin with.

--------------------
Dennis
Dress the bun, not the dog. And throw away that stupid knitted doggie sweater.

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: D_the_D]
      #281737 - 30/04/16 06:41 AM

You figured right.

Those .3655 bullets in that .368 bore sure laid down the copper. It came out fairly easy with the right gunk but I didn't relish doing it.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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D_the_D
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281745 - 30/04/16 10:19 AM

Quote:

You figured right.

Those .3655 bullets in that .368 bore sure laid down the copper. It came out fairly easy with the right gunk but I didn't relish doing it.



Don't beat me up for suggesting this. I cleaned with Iosso paste and Montana Extreme 50 cal copper cutter. Then I used Dyna Tek Bore Coat. It almost completely cured coppering up. Depends on your bore though. Mine is smooth. The decoppering agent in IMR 4166 works well in my Korean 308 M1 Garand and 8x57 Mausers. That may be helpful to the coppering problems.
I've got PRVI and Norma Vulkans loaded with IMR 4166 waiting to be chrono'd. Maybe I can sneak out next week. If I can get to 2100 with the 286gr and 2350 with the 232gr I'll be happy and quit.

--------------------
Dennis
Dress the bun, not the dog. And throw away that stupid knitted doggie sweater.

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DarylS
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: D_the_D]
      #281749 - 30/04/16 10:55 AM

The 232gr. Vulcans were very accurate in my 9.3x57 with the three powders I tested, H4895, H335 and BLC2.
They easily exceeded 2,350fps with all powders in my 96 as well as in Rod's (9.3x57's) 9.3x57. LOL.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281756 - 30/04/16 02:04 PM

I stopped at 2,450fps with the 232's and the same load ran the re-sized 225gr. (.375") Hornady Spire Points at 2,550fps. Same poi and sub inch at 100 meters - 3-shot groups.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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D_the_D
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281761 - 30/04/16 03:52 PM

I used your load of H335 with the 232 Vulkans! Smacked a black bear and 3 deer quite smartly, too.
I just picked Norma factory load velocities as a goal. If I don't have any significant case expansion when I get to 2350 (Vulkans) and 2100 (PRVIs), I'll probably see where I can go with 4166. Hodgdon reloading data suggests 4166 curves up rather abruptly compared to 4895 and 4064 approaching MAX loads. So I'll bear that in mind as work up. Can't just plug in the 4064 data safely on the top end.
I could just buy Norma powders and be done, but that's no fun.

--------------------
Dennis
Dress the bun, not the dog. And throw away that stupid knitted doggie sweater.

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sharps4590
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: D_the_D]
      #281772 - 30/04/16 09:47 PM

Wouldn't think of it Dennis. If coppering can be eliminated I'm all for it!!!! I appreciate you posting that. I doubt it will be much trouble in the future as the next step is a mold and work up a load for it. Being pretty much a dedicated cast bullet shooter I'm confident whatever I come up with will be the most used with the PPV bullet and load fired only occasionally.....and used for bragging rights for old eyes and open sights....lol!!

Daryl, clever, swaging .375 bullets down, good idea!!

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #281777 - 01/05/16 12:24 AM

Lee knows of this drawing of bullet to smaller sizes using their 7/8x14 threaded cast bullet sizing dies.

With their dies, for drawing .375's to .366", they suggest a 3-die set, as well, from .338" down to .330" for the .318 Rigby or the 8x56R.

As well, 8mm bullets can be drawn to .312 to .315" for various .303's.

I think they might charge $30.00 each for these dies, which come with the appropriately sized rams.

A phone call to Lee will hopefully elicit a positive result for you. Note, that the final draw die should be .365" as there will be just about .001" spring-back.

Just some of the .375" bullets I was playing with. In the bottom picture is the die I cobbled up out of a Pacific .222 FL die. I tried this with .223 RCBS dies and it didn't work. In the bottom picture on the right, are the 200gr. Sierra FN and the .220 Hornady FN.
Top picture:
220 Hornady FN
225gr. Hornady SP
235gr. Speer SRN
300gr. Hornady RN Interlock
300gr. Hornady RN Interbond

All of these bullets shot MOA or slightly less for 3-shot groups.




--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #281779 - 01/05/16 02:16 AM

Well done, excellent results!!! I shall have to keep that in mind, thanks!

I have a 9 X 57 with a .352 groove dia. and I made a die from a 7/8 X 14 bolt to take .358's down to .353/.354. Works great even in the very worn rifling of the old Mauser. Probably because it isn't pitted, just worn slick.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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Wanabebwana
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #283623 - 08/06/16 10:21 AM

A very elegant gun and a very efficient cartridge.

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sharps4590
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #283713 - 10/06/16 09:58 PM

Thank you Wanna. I have since worked up a cast load of 15 grs. of Unique with an open cell foam filler. Bullet is....crap...I forgot exactly, I think 270 or 272 grs. of 50/50 alloy. Quite accurate and surprisingly shoots exactly to the sights at 100 yards. Open sight groups were from 2 inches to 2 1/4 at 100 yards, benched and bagged. I didn't expect that but am grateful. Velocity averaged 1444 fps on a day in the 60's and about 20 fps faster the next time I chronoed the load in 80ish degree temp. I have the numbers out in the shop but am too lazy to go look. AD and SD numbers were in the single digits, that I do remember and I believe the ES was around 20 fps.

I tried IMR-4895, 4064 and 3031 under the cast bullet and velocities got all wonky. They would start at about 1700 fps then jump 200 fps from 1st to second shot. If memory serves me correctly the 3031 load jumped from around 1700 to 1900 then almost 2100. I thought barrel heating and the necks being too tight but not according to the measurements. No pressure signs of any significance on the brass or bolt lift but something is hunky. Still pondering that one. Any ideas anyone?

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #283725 - 11/06/16 12:43 AM

Cast bullets can make you sweat, just trying to get them to shoot, sometimes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #283732 - 11/06/16 06:13 AM

It's a mystery to me why the medium powders are all goofy while the Unique load so very good. I still think it's in the case but that doesn't make sense unless it is too tight and I'm overlooking something obvious. I want to find some 8 X 57 brass and re-work it to see if it acts different. Might be chasing the wind but I'm at a loss as to what else to try. I turned the necks thinner again when I suspected them even though they measured fine, but nope, that didn't make any difference.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #283737 - 11/06/16 08:26 AM

Your results might have been different with H4895- which seems to handle pressures under it's prime area better than the other mediums, even IMR3031.

I have had good results with loads in the 60% range, using H4895, but that was in large case .45 cal. rifles, not small bores.

I find Trail Boss works a treat, but that 5744 might be as good or better and it is certainly capable of higher ballistics than Trail Boss.

That said, my .375'06IMp shoots amazingly well with 310gr. Case flat base bullets with Rooster Red lube and 18.0gr. TB - 1,380fps - about 200fps better than a .38/55.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #283750 - 11/06/16 07:37 PM

Thanks Daryl. I have IMR-4895 and I believe there's also some H-4895 in the shop. I'll try one or both. Can't have any more silly results than before. I have Trail Boss and use it in old cartridges in rifles that aren't Nitro proofed. I've had good results with it. I have 5744 but so little data and have not worked with it enough to be familiar with it.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #283761 - 12/06/16 02:15 AM

I've never used 5744 myself - however, I have a pound a friend gave me to try out.

I told my bro I was going to try it in the .50/95 and he said that was a waist, I should be using it for a duplex load with black.

Prior experimenting in the .45 3 1/4| and my .50/70 showed me that 10 to 15gr. IMR3031 was a much better duplex 'starter' for black powder, than the normal 4759 or other fast powders.

With a 368gr. cast bullet, my 1876 gets 1,640fps with straight black powder loads of 78gr. GOEX 3F and 1,580fps with 85gr. Swiss 1 1/2F.

In bottle necked cases, the IMR Trail Boss will get pressures up to almost 30,000PSI if using jacketed bullets, according to Hodgdon's data.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #283789 - 12/06/16 09:42 PM

IMR-3031 for a priming charge? Hmmm...never occurred to me to try it. I've always use SR-4759 I guess because that's what almost everyone else used. I've had good results with it but have never worked very much with a 45 cal. case longer than the 2.6 in a Ballard. That extra length has to make a difference.

I know of several fella's who use 5744 in quite a few old straight walled cartridges but I don't believe any are as big as the 50-70. I want to remember most are in the 38-55/9.3 X 72R class cases. According to them their results are pretty good. I tried it in a Schuetzen rifle chambered to a cartridge based on the 8.15 X 46R with the neck and shoulder completely blown out to a straight taper and of .345 groove diameter and it didn't work nearly so well as IMR-4227. Come to think of it that rifle didn't like a straight load of SR-4759 either. Re-7 worked quite well.

I've both read and heard of Trail Boss getting a little goofy pressure-wise. It works well in the few cartridges I use it in, one being a Ruger #1 in 450/400 under cast bullets so "no worries" there. And doggone it, with a 413 gr. bullet cast of 50/50 lead/lino it is very accurate!!! Truth is that particular load with that bullet equals my 40-70 Shiloh Sharps so it's nothing new for me, except that it's smokeless.

Welp, time to get ready for church!!

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

Edited by sharps4590 (12/06/16 09:43 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: sharps4590]
      #283792 - 13/06/16 12:23 AM

I read an article on it, can't remember who wrote it, about using 3031 as a booster for black. Really shot well in the long cases, and the short .50/70 as well. I was getting 3" for 5 shots at 100 meters with the .50/70 original barrel and a shortened Lyman #515141 bullet. I was using jacketed and RCBS 500gr.(545gr.)cast with duplex loads in the 3 1/4", .45 Rolling Block.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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sharps4590
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Re: My Model 46 Husqvarna in 9.3 X 57 [Re: DarylS]
      #284145 - 19/06/16 09:29 PM

I MAY have found the reason the medium burn powders were acting so goofy with the cast bullet....which still doesn't make sense to me as it's fine with the jacketed bullets unless the difference in bullet diameter mattered...which evidently it does. With the formed brass the bolt always hit a sticky spot at the mid-point of opening the bolt. It didn't matter if the cartridge had been fired and that hard spot was not present when the chamber was empty. I suspected the brass but even with spotting compound couldn't really see much interference. After dinking with this for about a week I finally decided to resize the brass in my 9 X 57 die then open the case neck back to 9.3 with just the expanding button in the 9.3 die. Problem solved. So...I fired a few rounds then full length sized them in the 9.3 die. Same issue arose. Seemed obvious to me the die was too long for the chamber. Ground a few thousandths off the bottom of the sizing die and all is well in Ozark land. Now to try some cast bullet loads with the medium burners!

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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