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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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doubleriflejack
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Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS
      #173519 - 21/12/10 09:13 AM

Intercepting sears, generally found on sidelock British guns, were also used on better quality boxlocks as well (I have one, for example, that is on a boxlock Lancaster double rifle--it is Holland and Holland pattern). To the best of my knowledge, there were two patterns used, the Holland and Holland pattern that used two parallel sears, while the other pattern by Purdey, used a pivoting arm. Were there any other patterns used, especially on boxlocks, and if so, where can I see pictures of them to study functioning? With the Holland and Holland pattern, I can't understand how they work, unless it is simply that the two parallel sears are far less likely to fall out of notch in tumbler, compared to only one sear possibly falling out, because the ones I have seen have no means to prevent the double sears from falling out of notch, bent---they are made same as single sear gun, but have the double parallel sears. Where can I see pictures or drawings of the Purdey pattern, especially in enough detail to understand and study how they function?
To the best of my knowledge, no MODERN double rifle maker, from Germany, Spain, Belgium, France, Italy, offer intercepting sears standard, but at least one French double rifle maker does offers them as an option at more cost. Anybody know of any of these countries modern double rifle makers offering them? If you are an intercepting sear expert, please comment on your opinion of the reliability of the H & H pattern, and on the Purdey pattern, and on any other patterns you are familiar with.

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4seventy
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #173528 - 21/12/10 12:30 PM

Quote:

With the Holland and Holland pattern, I can't understand how they work, unless it is simply that the two parallel sears are far less likely to fall out of notch in tumbler, compared to only one sear possibly falling out, because the ones I have seen have no means to prevent the double sears from falling out of notch, bent---they are made same as single sear gun, but have the double parallel sears.



I'm no expert, but to the best of my knowledge, the Holland sidelock intercepting sear is totally different to what you describe.
The Holland sidelock features a totally seperate system for the intercepting sear.
If you examine a Holland sidelock, (and many other quality sidelocks) you'll see that as the trigger is pulled to fire the gun, the trigger is actually raising TWO sear levers, not just one.
The trigger lifts both an intercepting sear AND a tumbler sear at the same time.

If on the other hand the tumbler sear was accidently jarred free, without the trigger being pulled, the intercepting sear has not been lifted clear and will catch and hold the tumbler, preventing it from reaching the striker.

On some systems it might be possible for the tumbler sear and the intercepting sear to both be jarred free from a hard knock, and still allow the gun to fire.

This would normally not happen though, as usually the depth of the engagement of the intercepting sear is FAR greater than the tumbler sear, meaning it would take a far far bigger jolt to jar it enough to prevent it's task of catching the tumbler.

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doubleriflejack
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: 4seventy]
      #173589 - 22/12/10 08:28 AM

I have no access to Holland and Holland sidelock, but have examined Holland and Holland pattern intercepting sears on boxlocks, and they are exactly as you described. I think that you answered one of my questions, as to both sears possibly jarring loose, but unlikely to happen due to depth of engagement of one sear as opposed to other. It did bother me, though, that they both could possibly be jarred loose, in which case, no interception takes place, only a possible firing of both cartridges, or firing of rifle when dropped (I have never dropped a firearm in my life, but there is always a first time for everything). Thanks again for the explanation; I appreciate it. Anxious to hear if anyone else has anything to say about intercepting sears.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #173594 - 22/12/10 09:26 AM

AFAIK Tony White of T R White Gunmakers patented his own boxlock action with intercepting sears some years ago but he builds only shotguns. There isn't a lot of information on his website though you could e-mail him to ask about his design. An old issue of The Shooting Sportsman went over his design in detail some fifteen to twenty years ago.

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Paul
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #173631 - 22/12/10 11:58 PM

As I recall, Burrard's book shows drawings of some of these things, though I don't remember seeing a boxlock with intercepting sears there.

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wjw
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: Paul]
      #173680 - 23/12/10 11:42 AM

Burrard in Volume I shows intercepting sears for sidelocks and trigger plate actions, no boxlocks.

Bill

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AkMike
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: wjw]
      #173709 - 23/12/10 11:52 PM

I'm in Ukraine for the next month and can't help til I get back. But I have a JP Sauer 12 ga Shotgun converted to a 450 Nitro. It's got the intercepting sears. I'll take the stock off and take pics for you then if someone else hasn't helped by then.

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new_guy
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #173857 - 26/12/10 08:09 AM

Quote:

...To the best of my knowledge, no MODERN double rifle maker, from Germany, Spain, Belgium, France, Italy, offer intercepting sears standard, but at least one French double rifle maker does offers them as an option at more cost. Anybody know of any of these countries modern double rifle makers offering them?



Intercepting sears are standard on all HEYMs in 375 and larger. Even the "PH" grade (with no engraving) has intercepting sears.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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doubleriflejack
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Re: Intercepting sears on boxlocks, examples to study--QUESTIONS [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #174037 - 25/01/11 07:00 AM

Thanks for all the helpful input. I have finally had a chance to dismantle, and examine closely these intercepting sears. In reality, the intercepting sear, in H & H pattern, parallels the regular sear, but it doesn't engage the tumbler at all(THIS IS A POINT I DIDN'T FULLY COMPREHEND); it is held just off of it by a small amount. So, the regular sear is the only one that has any engagement with the tumbler, NORMALLY, and should it jump out of contact, due to shock from gun being dropped, or from shock of firing other lock, barrel (double discharge), the intercepting sear stops, intercepts, the tumbler from moving forward, from firing the gun. Purdey pattern intercepting sear has a long arm lever that engages tumbler nearer to the top of tumbler. English boxlock intercepting sears, function similar to the H & H pattern, but the parallel sears are within the action body, of course, unlike H & H pattern sidelock. Finally, I now know how these puppies work, and how they look.

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