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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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MKresinske
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
Need Advice
      #109806 - 16/07/08 03:53 AM

Are trophy fees negotiable or are they firm? My wife and I are booked for a hunt in SA for PG May 11 - 22, 2009. I have noticed the trophy fee for a couple of the animals seem a little high. Kudo - $2750.00 Is that high ? I don't want to offend the operator by asking if it is not appropriate to do so.

Any advice is greatly apprciated.

P.S I love reading the posts in this forum. Great source of information from those of you that have traveled to Africa and live there.

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: MKresinske]
      #109819 - 16/07/08 05:02 AM

Depending on the situation, etc ..all things are negotiable...being in S Africa--it will most likely be a game farm/ranch or some sort of high fenced area....not all but most are..which could be huge (in excess of 100,000 acres or quite a bit smaller)..

But in my opinion...$2750 is very high for a kudu...again, having said that I don't know all the logistics of this...is this some guarantee area for size or whatever??

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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MKresinske
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: Ripp]
      #109825 - 16/07/08 06:17 AM

I regret to say that I don't know many of the details. It was a donated hunt at an SCI banquet. The hunt included 5 days, 2 hunters, 2 observers daily rates, 2 Gemsbok, 2 Impala, 2 Springbuck. We added 5 days for Daily rate plus whatever additional trophy fees. I did meet the PH at the banquet and other members have been with him, it seemed like a reasonable gamble. Seems to me that he said there were "many" thousands of acres. I would like to get a Kudu on this trip, but will have to wait for my next trip if the price is firm. My wife doesn't know it, but I am already plotting to make another trip for DG !!! I saw someone post on this forum that it is an addiction eh !!

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Need Advice [Re: MKresinske]
      #109827 - 16/07/08 08:11 AM

Depends on the size realy. If its an all time record animal I wouldent mind paying that !
However for an average beast then it is high. I imagine with the current crisis and the ammount of cancelled business then it could be highly negotiable.
Then again if its a put and take outfit then they may not have bought the animal in anyway so they aint going to bargin.

Regards

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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Need Advice [Re: Bramble]
      #109837 - 16/07/08 12:15 PM

I relate to your situation. I am going to Zimbabwe next month for buffalo. I know I cant afford to shoot everything I want even if there is an opportunity. However, I know I must seize the opportunity if a really nice trophy presents itself. My outfitter told me a possibilty may exist for me to take a tuskless cow elephant. I cant afford not to take advantage of the opportunity. With travel expenses rising, not to mention the unstable politics of the region its hard to say when I may be able to go back. I will simply have to bite the bullet. If I were to actually wait until I could afford a trip like this, I would never have gone. I can't think of one good reason not to go. I may not shoot every impala or zebra that comes around the corner, but I will darn sure do my best to get a nice kudu if I see one. Along woth the aforementioned costs, taxidermy, shipping and all the other associated expenses, trophy fees just seem to be part of it. That doesnt stop one from doing a little hagglng! That does sound pricey.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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pinotguy
.275 member


Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 57
Loc: CO
Re: Need Advice [Re: bigmaxx]
      #109840 - 16/07/08 12:30 PM

Man, $2750 for a Kudu in RSA is astronomical. That's more than what a lot of places there charge for Nyala, Red Lechwe, or Tsessebe. I'm not trying to discount a serious Kudu bull as a trophy, but for that amount, it had better be an extraordinary specimen.

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AspenHill
Sponsor


Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: pinotguy]
      #109856 - 16/07/08 08:05 PM

That price is excessive for kudu anywhere.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures

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MKresinske
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: AspenHill]
      #109866 - 16/07/08 10:35 PM

Thanks to all for the replys. As usual, this forum is the best place to get the real deal about World Wide hunting. I will see what the PH says about the trophy fee on Kudo. I have a Whitetail deer/Turkey guide business in NY and I am sensitive to the costs and clients perseption of the price. I have people negotiate with me or question me about things daily. I personally feel that it builds the bond between client/guide relationship and am note offended by it. If the Kudu fee is not negotiable, I save the .375 round for the next trip. There are a couple of other animals that I am interested in and those fees seem more in line with the other outfits in Africa. When I start the search for the DG hunt, I will definitely be seeking advice from this forum.

MK

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AspenHill
Sponsor


Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: MKresinske]
      #109871 - 17/07/08 12:46 AM

"I have a Whitetail deer/Turkey guide business in NY "

I'd be interested to hear more about your hunts. I have deer hunted in western NY.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures

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MKresinske
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: AspenHill]
      #109875 - 17/07/08 01:21 AM

"I'd be interested to hear more about your hunts. I have deer hunted in western NY. "

The farms are located in Conesus, NY Livingston county (Deer Management Unit) DMU 8N. If you visit our website www.greathuntingny.com you can see more details. I will send you an email with more information about us and the operation.

Martin

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iqbal
resigned as a member


Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Re: Need Advice [Re: MKresinske]
      #109883 - 17/07/08 02:46 AM

I suggest you contact Dieter at Highveld Taxidermy.Besides being one of the best he is also reasonable.You can get his e mail by going to PHASA.

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butchloc
.300 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: Need Advice [Re: iqbal]
      #109938 - 18/07/08 06:31 AM

if i had an outfit charging me 2750 for kudu - i'd cancel the hunt immediately - somebodys a crook

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: butchloc]
      #109943 - 18/07/08 07:43 AM

kind of my thoughts--as too the overpriced part--guess that is why he donated the trip at auction..

Not sure I would bag the trip..but the price is way over the line...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (18/07/08 01:49 PM)

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Need Advice [Re: Ripp]
      #109958 - 18/07/08 02:25 PM

Sounds like he has donated the hunt hopeing to make up any loss with excessive trophy fees once your there.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: Need Advice [Re: tophet1]
      #109964 - 18/07/08 09:41 PM

Could also just be a property that doesn't have alot of kudu. As long as the other trphy fees were reasonable, I wouldn't worry. Plus if you want a kudu, you could always tack on a couple of days with another outfitter on another property after your main hunt ends.

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MKresinske
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #110165 - 21/07/08 11:24 PM

Thanks to all for the advice. I will have to plan on making a second trip to Africa to pick up a Kudu if the PH is firm on the price. Probably when I go for DG. Thought a PG hunt would be a good way to cut my teeth on hunting in Africa and let my wife get it in her blood. I have wanted to do it since I was a little boy, only sorry that I waited so long !!!!!

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bigmaxx
.375 member


Reged: 13/06/07
Posts: 660
Loc: Bowling Green KY U.S.A.
Re: Need Advice [Re: MKresinske]
      #110992 - 03/08/08 01:27 PM

If you go to Zimbabwe a kudu is $1100.00. I leave for my first African Safari on the 29th of this month. Everybody I have talked to says I will return again! I have two buddys that bought a hunt in SA at the NRA auction a couple of months ago. Anxious to see what their trophy fees are!! Maybe you can negotiate the fee.

--------------------
One day at a time...

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Need Advice [Re: bigmaxx]
      #110999 - 03/08/08 05:01 PM

I don't mean to offend anyone, but there seems to be a few pat answers here and as with most things in Africa, it ain't quite as simple as first appears and easy pat answers are not usually particularly accurate.

Trophy fees depend on a lot of factors. In some countries and with many companies some and often all of the fee goes to the Government or Game Dept, in others is divided between them and sometimes it all goes to the landowner or leaseholder. Sometimes the animals are bought in from game auctions and sometimes they all occur naturally. As a rule of thumb, pretty much all areas in SA and many in some other southern African countries are fenced and in most of these areas, a percentage of the most popular species at least are bought in from time to time.

As with most things in recent times, game auction prices are going up with the ever rising price of fuel, (game capture operations have always been ultra expensive and very fuel dependent)



so that could be one reason for the high price. Another reason could be that the outfitter is virtually giving the hunt away because it was a donated hunt and he needs to find a way to make a profit or at least, not to make a loss on the hunt, and has increased the price of some popular species. Yet another reason might be that he doesn't have many of that species and has so increased the price to put hunters off of shooting too many of them over the season because they'll be expensive to replace.

Whatever the reason, my guess is that if you looked at the overall costs of supplying the hunt, he won't be making an unreasonable profit on the deal - he might not be making a profit at all. Can you negotiate? well, I guess you can try, but don't be suprised if he politely tells you to either shoot the animal and pay the cost or if you don't want to pay the cost, simply don't shoot the animal.

Hope that helps.......

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (03/08/08 10:46 PM)

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MKresinske
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
Re: Need Advice [Re: shakari]
      #111069 - 04/08/08 11:43 PM

Steve, that is a good answer. That is why I presented the question to this forum. Knew I would get an appropriate answer. I will not even bring up the question to the PH. I don't want to insult him or put him in an uncomfortable position. Might find myself as bait if I am not careful:) We have added extra days to the donated hunt and will certainly take other animals. I am sure that I will get addicted to Africa an "Need" to return for another trip. Knowing how I work, I will see a nice Kudo and not care about the fee anyway.

That game collection must be a lot of work and dangerous. I have seen it on TV. I bet it is quite a sight with the copper zipping around.

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Need Advice [Re: MKresinske]
      #111084 - 05/08/08 02:02 AM

Quote:

Steve, that is a good answer. That is why I presented the question to this forum. Knew I would get an appropriate answer. I will not even bring up the question to the PH. I don't want to insult him or put him in an uncomfortable position. Might find myself as bait if I am not careful:) We have added extra days to the donated hunt and will certainly take other animals. I am sure that I will get addicted to Africa an "Need" to return for another trip. Knowing how I work, I will see a nice Kudo and not care about the fee anyway.

That game collection must be a lot of work and dangerous. I have seen it on TV. I bet it is quite a sight with the copper zipping around.



I think that is a wise decision........

Yup, game capture is a lot of hard work and indeed dangerous. It's a lot of fun though!! Most companies use Robinson R22 choppers as they're slightly less expensive to buy, run and maintain, but they're a real SOB to fly (it's a bit like flying a video game in that control input is incredibly sensitive) and they have the highest accident rate of any small chopper........ Game capture pilots also have high accident rates and any and any and all kinds of insurance in the industry is very expensive.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (05/08/08 03:41 PM)

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Paul
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Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: Need Advice [Re: MKresinske]
      #111110 - 05/08/08 09:53 AM

Trophy fees may have a downside beyond what they cost. The Australian Deer Association appears to see them as synonymous with corruption. Its belief appears to be that where trophy fees are charged, the guide is more than likely to go beyond fair chase in order to get an animal for his client. I have no personal position on this but feel alternative views should be aired.

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