Forums.NitroExpress.com

Many in the gun world are "number chasers". The fact that a bullet going 3300 FPS and one going 3000 fFPS from the muzzle do the exact same job in the field and on game, can't be told apart is of no relevance to those doing the buying in the market matters not al all for those doing the marketing. The American market is often driven by numbers and not by realism.

Nosler's mission is now to "out Weatherby" Weatherby. And in so doing, they are making some cartridges that are horribly inefficient, but they show high numbers. And I am sure they will kill game, many times as well as cartridges that have been around for 85 to 100 years, but it's doubtful to me that they will do any better.
Why?
I have owned several supper mags in the past. Sold them all. My fastest "big game guns" were a 30/378 Weatherby and a 7MM STW and after killing several animals with then, and seeing how they worked just as well as a 30-06 I decided they was WAY harder on bore life and a lot more expensive to fire, so I sold them.

Those the worship at the alter of numbers will scream at my statement, but I see no reason why. I don't care if they want to burn 96 to 104 grains of powder with every shot and have target grade accuracy for only 400 round per barrel. It's their money. So I care not at all if they love huge shells with smaller bores. In fact, it actually very good for my business because I know about 15 of them in within about 200 miles of me that have me re-barrel their rifles every year and 2 of them have gone through as many as 3 barrels a year, and one of then 4 barrels a year. It's very good for business. Besides, in my experience so far, most of those that ascribe a near religious significance to their super-duper magnums have not actually killed 25 to 50 head of game with standard shells so they don't really know that what they get from their stupendous mags are about the same that you get on game shot with a standard 270, 30-06 or maybe a 300 Win or H&H mag. I do know. I have accounted for more game then I can count and most was killed with more "standard' cartridges, but probably about 40-50 were killed with magnums of 300 Win Mag and faster or 338 Win mag and larger. I do see a difference on elk and moose when I get to the 375H&H, but the 358 Norma, 340 Weatherby 300 Weatherby 30/378 Weatherby 7MM STW and a few wildcats bases on the 404 shell are all good in the field, but shooting bullets that hold together they don't drop elk, deer antelope bison or bears any better then a good 30-06 with a similar bullet. If you don't use a REAL good bullet in the super fast magnums they don't kill AS WELL as a 30-06 or even a 308 or standard 270 because the wounds are erratic and often shallow.

If my opinion if Nosler wants to do it right they need to introduce some longer heavier bullets and have barrels made with faster twists (as we see with this new 270) and NOT try for more speed, but go for the same speed as the older shell with a notable heavier bullet. A 270 Nosler firing a 180 grain or 190 grain bullet at 2900 through a barrel that will stabilize it and shoot it accurately would possibly be a cool gadget for the hunter. The number most gun-rag-readers look at first are always about velocity. That's not really going to serve a hunter as well as better BC numbers. Wind drift and drops are more important then muzzle speed by a long ways. Many of the newer shooters today are finally starting to learn this, but with super long for caliber bullets comes other issues, all of which could be solved, but the foundation for such performance should be the BULLET, not a gun or shell. If Nosler was to bring out it's line of shells, but FIRST bring out barrels rifled about 15% to 20% faster for bullets that average 15 to 25% heavier then what is currently "the heaviest" per caliber---- I believe they would give something that actually may be a benefit to the market. Super speed is NOT new. The Germans and the French were experimenting with rifles and cartridges 100 years ago that were around 4000 FPS (one German maker in 1924 had a shell that went 4650 FPS with a 236 grain bullet, but bore life was 13 rounds) and all gave up because of poor bore life and the inability to make a bullet that did the job at impacts from the muzzle all the way out to 2000 yards. Bullets that hit at 3900 FPS can't be made with lead cores and be expected to work well at impacts of 1700 fps too. But the invention of solid expanding bullets could possible do the trick. The ones I would like to see with have a nose cavity filled with soft lead so the impacts of speeds from 3200 all the way down to about 1300 would still expand. the down side is expense. Design has to work, but also has to sell, and bullet that sell for $200 to $500 each mean only millionaires can afford to become good marksmen with them at ranges that the super high BC mean anything.

Physics are still physics and that is what destroys the intent of gun and ammo makers. It's this little thing called reality. So ads and articles are made up to tell some of the story and make VERY sure the rest of the story is not mentioned.

If and when Nosler (or anyone else) can make a 25 cent bullet 20% heavier then "industry standards" that will not blow up on heavy bone when shot at 20 feet and yet will still expand at least to 40% over original diameter when striking only lungs at 1500 yards, the whole game will change. (I am not just being abrasive here because if ANYONE can do this, it's probably Nosler) Bullets of wonderful capabilities exist now, but at the price the ask I can't afford to fire 500 to 1500 a year through 6-9 rifles apiece to keep my skill level up to what I think it should be. Shots to about 500-600 yards do not need any new bullet at all. So I am totally satisfied with what I can get now and "new and improved" are not even something that would catch my interest yet because they are answers to a question that doesn't exist. Super long range bullet that possesses the accuracy to hit small targets at ranges "way out there" and still not blow up at the ranges I kill 99% of the game I hunt, (especially when I consider MOST game I kill is at 80 yards and less, with probably 1/2 of those being 40 and less) and yet will not let me down if I ever wanted to fire at game at 1000 yards. That same bullet must expand on a lung shot at those ranges too, and I have to be able to buy them in 26 cal 27 cal 7MM cal, 30 cal and 33 8 cal and be able to buy them at a price I can afford when I buy them 1000 at a time for all those caliber except 30. 30s I buy 5000 at a time. I don't see that happening any time soon. But I sure would love to be wrong about that statement.

Until then, I'll personally let the "buying public" spend their money to be the guinea pigs, and I'll just stick with my old 270s, my 30-06s my 308s, my 8X57, 300 H&H, my 9.3X62 and 375H&H. In this line the 270 Winchester and 300H&H are the youngest and most modern. Heck these 2 youngsters are not even 100 yet. (only 95)

In my opinion (which is not going to be listened to ) Muzzle Velocities of around 3200 FPS max should be held, but longer bullets, and barrels to shoot them well, would be the way to go. Not just taking bullets of a design 50-85 years old and making them go 300-500 FPS faster. That doesn't really help anyone in the field to any real extent, and it is very hard on bores and pocketbooks.

Post Extras