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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2110
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: American .323" bullets
      03/12/16 04:09 AM

All true.
But I am not hunting Buffalo anymore. I am hunting elk. That's the point I made several posts ago.


You point out the facts reported in that magazine article and I don't disagree with any of them, but I point out to you that in that very article the close range test shows the Partition beat the A-fame. In long range testing the A-frame beat the Nosler. I have no problem with any of that.

But I am not shooting a 300 Win Mag with 180 grain bullets. Or any of the super mags either. I wonder how the testing would have gone with a bit slower gun, 300 H&H or 30-06 shooting 200 or 220 grain bullets. Or the same test with the same bullets, but being shot from a 308 Winchester. Neither you or I know those things as of this moment do we?

What I do know is that my 300 H&H (Old M70) had done very well on elk with 200 and 220 grain Partition out to about 450 yards and killed them DRT leaving good size exits. Theory is good, but the fact is the 300 H&H is doing perfectly, and I can't really get any better than 100%. I now have another 300 H&H I made for myself on a Mauser with a 27" barrel. I am sure the same loads with 200 and 220 grain bullets will work just as well from it.

I do know what a 308 will do with 150 Gr Winchester Power Points because last year my wife and a friend killed 2 elk with them at about 300 and 400 yards. I was pleasantly surprised that they worked far better then I expected.

For the game I am hunting and from the guns/calibers I am hunting with, the Partitions are working as well or better than the A-frames that I have seen customers and friends shoot. I personally have not used A-frames for the reasons I stated in the previous posts, but I have seen them used by a few other hunters. I can't say in honesty that I have seen they work any better than the partitions, and in a few cases, like the shots at longer range, they don't work as well ON ELK.

I am sure they would do better on Bison or Buffalo, but I would probably be using a bigger gun on them anyway.

I am not married to Nosler Partitions. I have no loyalty pledge to them. I use them many times with 100% success so far, but I am willing to try other bullets too. As you can see from this very thread. I killed my elk this year with 8MM Hornady SSTs.

I still like to learn when I can, and as a custom gunsmith, it's good for me to have real world knowledge of various bullets on game at various velocities. I think it's a fascinating subject.

I am very interested in trying many of the new bonded bullets that are out today too, and I hope I live long enough to have a LOT of things to say about them someday too.

The reason I like Nosler Partition is that in my years of hunting I have yet to have one fail me.

I agree that if I were to shoot a faster rifle the Barnes or Swift would probably be better.

But I am not shooting faster guns!

I am shooting guns and calibers most of which were "new" in the 1920s and some were "new" in the late 1800s. The Partitions were the best thing going for such calibers when John Nosler brought them out in the late 1940s. From experience (A LOT OF IT) I have to say I have yet to see that has changed for such guns and calibers.

For the fastest of the new Super-magnums I have no doubt the X bullets and the A frames ARE better overall, but I don't shoot those, and I don't really like them much. My tastes run more toward the classics. I hunt for the fun and for the meat. If I have more fun hunting with a classic rifle which is old fashioned (like maybe even my flintlocks) there is no harm in that, and no one should feel slighted by it. I don't care what others use. If I am asked I will tell them what I know, I will tell them what I believe and why I believe it, and I will tell them what I just don't know yet.

The human being is plagued with a condition physiologists call "cognitive dissonance". One of the points of this phenomenon is that people will defend what they are invested in, because the investment causes them to feel a need to be "right" in their mind. We see it in the media and among liberals all the time.

Defending your investment is a good thing in principal, but not always in practice.

Years ago "Nebraska Man" was all the rage in the study of archeology. It was of enough interest to some in the collage systems that many grad school students wrote their thesis's on the study of this new find, and waxed on and on about all they could learn from "Nebraska Man", and how important it was to the field of study. Some of these students went on to be awarded PHDs and doctorates in the study of archeology.

But with the advent of Gas Chromatography the fossils of "Nebraska Man" were found to be from a pig.

How interesting that the "doctors' were not made into "non-doctors" ----- and many tried for 20 years after to defend their conclusions from collage.

See, those men and women invested years of time and thousands of dollars into their field of study. They were "educated" and would tell you so at every opportunity. So they just could NOT be wrong.

But they were.

It didn't make them immoral, illegal, unethical ------ or even fat.
They were just wrong. (welcome to the human race huh?)


But its interesting to see how people will defend their position even in the face of opposing facts.

People are far more likely to defend something that costs them more time or money than they are to defend something that costs less time or money. That's how cognitive dissonance works. It is disarmed and become less of a lever on us when we know what it is and how it works. Humility is the best weapon against it, which is why liberals don't ever see how it's bending them.

Black Lives do matter, but no more than any human life in the eyes of God. Say that on TV and you somehow become a racist because cognitive dissonance is controlling liberal emotions.

I really like and trust Nosler Partitions because they have been 100% effective for me so far. I know of some men that have had different experience with them, and all I can recall were driving them faster than I do.

So I don't think they are the only bullet on earth. I do use others and I report what I find, good, mediocre or bad. I did it when I started this very thread. As you said, this is not CNN. I am not a "liberal".

I am a Christian. I didn't want to be a Christian when I was younger because the faith demanded I look at truth and see myself in light of that truth. I didn't like all of what I saw. So I tried to ignore it for several years. Cognitive dissonance held some sway with me.

But when we get honest with ourselves, then, and only then, can become honest with God.

I now try to live my life in all ways by that foundational principal. It means I can acknowledge that all I like may not be good, and some of what I don't like may be good. I am under obligation to embrace what's good and my likes and dislikes have to be in 2nd pace to the truth. It covers my life and filters down from things like politics and faith to work, charging for my labor, to the helping of others and even what products I buy, recommend, and why.

I am as patriotic as any man you will ever meet, but when I see something my government is doing wrong I am quick to condemn it, and speak openly about it. I love the idea of "Be American and Buy American" as long as an American product is (A) available and (B) of equal or better quality compared to an import.
But I do not think being self-deceived and buying an inferior American Made Product is the right thing to do if an import is better quality. If "Buying American" is supporting a communist based Labor Union that is largely controlled by the Chines or Russians it may be better for my own country to buy the import and give an American the motivation to compete with the Lib/Comm-controlled Unions. Life is not allways that simple and even in my best efforts I am sure I make mistakes..

Why this rant?
Because I am trying my best with my somewhat limited abilities as a writer, to point out that I am NOT "married" to any product, (Nosler included) but I am married to a principal. That principal being that truth and facts should drive our choices, not emotions, not investments, and not unguided loyalties.

That is the basis of Biblical truth and it is also the foundation of Constitutional Law inculcated into our Bill of Rights. It should become part of who we are at every level. It's OK to disagree, but its dangerous to disagree with someone just because you don't like the facts they point out.

That said, I would agree that A-frames may be better for buffalo, but for elk I don't think so.
Your mileage may vary.


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Subject Posted by Posted on
* American .323" bullets szihn 29/05/16 01:54 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   31/05/16 09:16 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets brosteve   31/05/16 01:20 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   01/06/16 01:42 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   01/06/16 06:48 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets NitroXAdministrator   01/06/16 07:21 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Rolf   08/07/16 10:21 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   09/07/16 12:13 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets mehulkamdar   10/07/16 02:15 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   10/07/16 02:20 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets GPJ12345   16/07/16 01:05 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets xausa   16/07/16 01:53 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   18/07/16 01:45 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets xausa   06/09/16 11:55 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   12/09/16 01:13 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   12/09/16 01:28 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets BillG500   13/10/16 01:11 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Rule303   13/10/16 06:27 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets BillG500   13/10/16 08:55 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   14/10/16 02:10 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Rule303   14/10/16 08:28 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   14/10/16 08:42 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   14/10/16 03:02 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   15/10/16 03:43 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   16/10/16 01:50 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Waidmannsheil   16/10/16 07:49 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   16/10/16 08:10 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   16/10/16 08:42 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Waidmannsheil   16/10/16 01:13 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   21/10/16 07:16 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets dotchicco   30/11/16 11:05 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   30/11/16 01:31 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   30/11/16 06:36 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Waidmannsheil   30/11/16 09:52 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets dotchicco   30/11/16 10:57 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   01/12/16 12:30 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   01/12/16 01:22 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   01/12/16 02:24 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   01/12/16 02:50 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   01/12/16 05:59 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   01/12/16 12:28 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   01/12/16 03:23 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   02/12/16 11:13 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   02/12/16 12:42 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   02/12/16 01:19 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   02/12/16 02:06 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   03/12/16 02:14 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   03/12/16 04:09 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Ripp   03/12/16 05:55 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   03/12/16 07:21 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   01/12/16 07:55 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   22/10/16 03:29 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Schauckis   16/11/16 03:48 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   16/11/16 10:26 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   14/10/16 02:29 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   12/09/16 10:36 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   13/09/16 02:10 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   13/09/16 11:27 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   09/10/16 03:35 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Waidmannsheil   09/10/16 04:15 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   10/10/16 12:57 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   12/10/16 11:43 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   12/10/16 02:48 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   13/10/16 01:56 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   13/10/16 05:21 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Squarebridge   18/07/16 06:12 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   23/07/16 11:06 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   24/07/16 02:25 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets szihn   06/09/16 01:36 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   06/09/16 02:43 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Jim_C   23/07/16 11:54 PM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   01/06/16 01:48 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets Homer   30/05/16 09:31 AM
. * * Re: American .323" bullets DarylS   30/05/16 02:00 PM

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