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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: .458wm
      12/08/04 03:10 AM

I think what you are say, or asking is, why compare the 458 Win Mag and the 458 LOTT, because they are two different cartridges. If that is the case, then the statement is not a comparison, but my statement that the 458 Win Mag should have had the case measurements of the LOTT in the first place. The LOTT simply being a 458 Win Mag with a little longer case. The longer case iliminates the problems that were experienced in the 458 WM. The balistics they were looking to duplicate would have been much easier to accomplish if they had used the LOTT dimintions in the 375H&H length Mod 70.

I'm not saying the 458 Win Mag is not a good cartridge, it is! However, loaded the way the factory planned it, it was problematic. If loaded that way today, it will still be problimatic. The fact is any problem cartridge can be salvaged by some judicious, and careful handloading, and experimenting. The fact is, however, if the 458 win mag had origenaly had the dimentions of the LOTT, none of this would have been necessary, is all I'm saying!

I own, and have owned several 458 Win Mag rifles, over the years, and I had zero trouble out of them, because from the start, I knew the 500 gr bullets were not right for this little package, and I substituted a 400, and 450 gr bullets, and backed off to the lowest load for the 500 gr bullet in the load books, then worked up till I got to a load that would fill the case to the base of the seated bullet, and shoot good groups. That approche was what the factory should have done, if they were to use the short case. It wasn't long before everyone knew there was a problem obtaining the velocities the factory claimed with the 500 gr bullet, without crushing the powder. Sometimes not even then! Even with todays powders, the 500 gr bullet is not well suited to the 458 WM, and one must compact the powder , and raise pressures very high to come close to factory specs,with a 500 gr bullet, in anything but a test barrel.

I'm not saying the 458 is a bastard, but that the balistics they expected were illconcieved, in the form the case was made! If those balistics were desired, the case should have been lengthened, or the bullet weight reduced! If that makes me a dinosaur who can't learn anything new, then so be it, but there are few days that I do not load at least one chambering, and somtimes three or four, and they are not all big bore cartridges! I shoot everything from .22lr, to 577NE, and every thing from muzzelloader to belted magnums, and double rifles! However, I find that physics do not change with the number in front of the year!

The case, of the 458 WM, is too small to handle a 500 gr bullet effeciently! The 458 LOTT case is not too small, and will handle the 500 gr bullet very well, case closed ! BYE!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* .458wm PP_skåne 23/07/04 09:24 AM
. * * Re: .458wm atkinson6   13/10/04 12:23 PM
. * * Re: .458wm ThomasEdwards   27/11/04 12:51 PM
. * * Re: .458wm mickey   23/07/04 11:17 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Geronimo   24/07/04 07:39 AM
. * * Re: .458wm mickey   25/07/04 11:34 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Ingwe   26/07/04 01:26 PM
. * * Re: .458wm atkinson6   28/07/04 06:12 AM
. * * Re: .458wm mickey   28/07/04 09:20 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Ingwe   28/07/04 09:49 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Con   29/07/04 01:21 PM
. * * Re: .458wm Ingwe   29/07/04 01:28 PM
. * * Re: .458wm PP_skåne   30/07/04 11:34 AM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   08/08/04 03:07 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   27/11/04 11:08 AM
. * * Re: .458wm PP_skåne   10/08/04 07:14 PM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   12/08/04 03:10 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   30/11/04 01:06 AM
. * * Re: .458wm PP_skåne   12/08/04 09:13 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   12/08/04 08:41 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 400NitroExpress   28/11/04 10:11 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   28/11/04 03:52 PM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   13/08/04 02:37 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   14/08/04 09:18 AM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   14/08/04 11:24 PM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   15/08/04 08:13 AM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   15/08/04 11:07 AM
. * * Re: .458wm atkinson6   04/09/04 05:06 AM
. * * Re: .458wm wombat   05/09/04 03:04 PM
. * * Re: .458wm **DONOTDELETE**   06/09/04 02:03 PM
. * * Re: .458wm mickey   07/09/04 03:22 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Will   20/09/04 10:06 AM
. * * Re: .458wm atkinson6   29/09/04 05:08 AM
. * * Re: .458wm atkinson6   19/09/04 03:00 AM
. * * Re: .458wm wombat   27/11/04 11:48 AM
. * * Re: .458wm mudbug   30/10/04 06:39 PM
. * * Re: .458wm cooch   19/09/04 10:59 PM
. * * Re: .458wm Will   06/09/04 05:43 AM
. * * Re: .458wm mudbug   05/09/04 12:59 PM
. * * Re: .458wm Will   05/09/04 02:11 PM
. * * Re: .458wm jgttechjunkie   05/09/04 06:10 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   13/08/04 07:44 AM
. * * Re: .458wm PP_skåne   13/08/04 08:28 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   13/08/04 04:59 PM
. * * Re: .458wm PP_skåne   15/08/04 03:14 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   15/08/04 09:04 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Con   12/08/04 01:22 PM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   11/08/04 08:24 AM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   11/08/04 02:42 AM
. * * Re: .458wm PP_skåne   11/08/04 07:59 AM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   12/08/04 02:17 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   08/08/04 08:39 AM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   09/08/04 03:26 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   09/08/04 05:10 PM
. * * Re: .458wm DUGABOY1   10/08/04 12:54 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   11/08/04 08:21 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   10/08/04 08:33 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Ingwe   10/08/04 03:54 AM
. * * Re: .458wm 4seventy   09/08/04 04:58 PM
. * * Re: .458wm jgttechjunkie   08/08/04 09:55 AM
. * * Re: .458wm Ingwe   08/08/04 06:47 AM
. * * Re: .458wm PP_skåne   23/07/04 06:13 PM

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