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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho
      07/02/08 03:02 AM

Quote:

Not specifically with regards to Idaho but a lot of the anti wolf attitude seems to me to be a competitive thing. Wolves eat game - deer, moose - and also domestic livestock.

Right on. Exactly. Current generations seem to be embarrassed about that to some degree and some people, hunters even, seem to resist the inclination to COMPETE with the wolf or even that they are rightfully entitled to do so. I'm not embarrassed about wanting wolves to lose. First, I'm glad my forefathers shot, poisoned and dynamited every wolf they did and as regards wolves, the hunting opportunities of Western Europe would be a far different thing if wolves were around today. The benefits of wolf persecution are widespread. It is a great success story!! Yes, they are in my opinion a disease to be stamped out or at the very least held to a very low minimum, sort of like small pox kept in a lab for further study...

Reduce the availability or numbers for man, whether game or livestock.

Wolves on appearance as predators are no different to lion, leopard, tiger etc in their effect on game and human interaction. Except a lion, tiger or leopard is more likely to also kill humans.

One very significant difference involves weather. We in the West not only have predators taking game each year, but every year winter takes its toll and cyclically it is devastating to our game herds. For example, in 1996, Idaho suffered a devastating winter. In the Lolo area, herds have not yet recovered, and this year we are experiencing another very serious winter. A State study demonstrated the severe impact of wolves on elk populations struggling to recover from the '96 winter in the Lolo. I discussed this with the biologist yesterday and he agreed; this year with the game concentrated in the low country and suffering limited brouse and hindered by deep snow, they are being slaughtered en masse by predators. I might add we are seeing evidence of this just off my ground at the river.

Hard winters Africa does not see, though drought in Africa and Australia might be a similar climatic factor to be compared. We see a certain % of healthy, strong game animals killed every winter by winter alone. And our game numbers overall are nothing like the densities existing in most game country of sub-Saharan Africa in the first place. Nitro, you are right: We hunters are competing with predators for the game and I for one, in concert with many who have gone before me, sincerely hope I win and they lose.


I still think the world is lesser if there were not populations, indeed huntable populations of all these predators.

As mentioned, irradication is not the issue, though as also mentioned, I believe we were far better off when we had a very small number of wolves in Idaho. One thing that many on a Forum of this type may not understand is the ACTUAL financial benefit large game have in poverty-stricken areas like mine and many others throughout the West and indeed in Africa. MANY people count on an elk and deer for food. Rich guys who want to hunt this or that game animal in places far from home are to be commended for paying the $ to do so, but they should never forget that many people actually utilize the game for direct and needed sustenance. I personally do not need an elk's weight in meat each year. I make enough money that I can afford not to shoot one. But many hard working local people DO rely on elk and deer, and I make no apologies for standing 100% with them in my desire to see them succeed and wolves fail.

***

With regards to the Indian and tiger example given above, but what if as is mostly likely the man killing a tiger in defence or in defence of his cow, is actually encroaching on a national park? ie illegal grazing in a small area of what was originally habitat for the tiger?

I am not saying government doesn't have a responsibility to manage game and or predators. And certainly in India with 1,100,000,000 people the issue is of crisis proportions. But is there anyone among us that would let our own children starve in order to "save a tiger"? I wouldn't even let them skip breakfast.

Beyond that, if the existence of tigers is so all-fired important to the world, then let the world provide a sustainable income to the people who are competing with them.


Also the historic decimation of tigers in the wild was not by shotgun or rifle, but more by poisoned bait or carcases. Similar to what is described for the treatment of wolves.

Correct again, at least regarding wolves. I submit to your knowledge of tiger decimation. Hunting of large predators is as Daryl notes, very difficult with a gun. I saw one wolf on my ranch last fall {heard many during elk season. Our local herd was driven off by them. I never got a shot at elk last fall.} Anyway, the wolf was about 500 yards away and running. I'm not as good a shot as some others and this would have been beyond my ability had I took a whack at it... My wife saw one in August '07 about 200 yards from our house. It was on the railroad tracks standing, watching my sheep and horses. She didn't have a gun and it took off when it saw her move for the house. I saw another one in 2000 while grouse hunting, this time very close to me. It was chasing a deer and I only had a load of #6's in my Beretta had I the inclination to slow it down.




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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho larcher 04/02/08 10:01 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho JabaliHunter   04/02/08 10:33 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho peter   04/02/08 11:04 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Ripp   05/02/08 12:57 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho peter   05/02/08 01:30 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   05/02/08 03:54 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   06/02/08 01:46 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho EricD   06/02/08 04:31 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho JabaliHunter   06/02/08 03:45 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   06/02/08 04:31 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho peter   06/02/08 05:10 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   06/02/08 05:55 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho AzGuy   06/02/08 11:01 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   06/02/08 11:35 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho JabaliHunter   06/02/08 11:17 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   07/02/08 01:37 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho NitroXAdministrator   07/02/08 02:23 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   07/02/08 03:02 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   07/02/08 06:32 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho JabaliHunter   07/02/08 10:52 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   08/02/08 12:44 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   08/02/08 02:39 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Ripp   08/02/08 03:54 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   08/02/08 10:15 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   18/04/08 01:36 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   18/04/08 11:23 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   18/04/08 01:56 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho JabaliHunter   18/04/08 08:19 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   18/04/08 10:49 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho rscott   18/04/08 11:41 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   19/04/08 01:32 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   19/04/08 02:13 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   19/04/08 03:28 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho rscott   19/04/08 03:37 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   19/04/08 05:54 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   08/02/08 01:21 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Ripp   08/02/08 01:34 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho ArnoldB   24/02/08 06:24 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   24/02/08 06:40 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   07/02/08 02:18 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho JabaliHunter   24/02/08 07:06 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   24/02/08 07:14 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Ripp   25/02/08 04:11 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho szihn   28/02/08 10:02 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   28/02/08 01:09 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Dphariss   04/03/08 05:24 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   04/03/08 08:58 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   04/03/08 03:48 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   05/03/08 01:21 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   05/03/08 02:26 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   05/03/08 03:08 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   05/03/08 09:29 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   05/03/08 10:24 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   05/03/08 12:00 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Shackleton   06/03/08 01:04 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho AspenHill   06/03/08 09:46 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   07/03/08 01:06 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Ripp   08/03/08 01:04 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   08/03/08 01:58 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho Wes350   29/03/08 10:25 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho EricD   19/03/08 07:11 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   21/03/08 11:14 PM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   22/03/08 01:08 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   12/03/08 08:29 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho 9.3x57   08/03/08 03:20 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho DarylS   07/03/08 02:08 AM
. * * Re: Imported wolves causing havoc in Idaho bwananelson   01/03/08 03:39 AM

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