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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

jc5
.300 member


Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer?
      28/01/08 06:37 PM

Old_rifle_nut,

Yes, please post pictures. I've been trying to research all I can about the Lee Speeds, and I've found the threads regarding them here at the Nitro Express forums to be very useful. There's another thread where I posted some catalog pics over at http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=23226

Another company that offered Lee Speeds was Manton & Co.. They advertised the BSA Lee Speed on p.70 of their 1926-7 Price List, calling it a "BSA Lee Enfield Sporting Rifle." This catalog has been reprinted by Cornell Publications. The catalog is for their Calcutta office and all prices are in rupees. It is interesting that they only offer it in the .315 caliber, because by 1926 the .303 had long since been banned in India (for info on this ban, see "British Single Shot Rifles, Vol. 3" by Wal Winfer, pp. 242-244.) Also, the Manton catalog (p.3) has a section that is full of the odious "gun control" disclaimers and warnings that we have come to know in the present era: "licenses", exemptions, caliber restrictions, mailing restrictions, liability limitations. It's all so depressingly modern. I'm not sure if such restrictions had already been enacted in Britain by this time, but India was certainly in a heightened state of anxiety regarding independence movements and unrest, so it makes sense that the Gov't would seek to keep the people disarmed and reduce the chances of military ammo finding its way into the hands of undesirables. No 2nd Amendment in India!

Anyway, there was a Lee Speed Manton rifle for sale on Gunbroker awhile back and it was indeed stamped "Manton." I saved the info on it for research purposes, and it read as follows:
...
“BSA Co” stamped on the action strap on the right side. “375 EX” and “CORDITE 40-
270 MAX” stamped on the right side of the barrel just forward of the barrel step. “MANTON & CO.
GUN MAKERS LONDON & CALCUTTA” prominently and sharply engraved on top of the barrel rib.
...
I wonder just want each retailer had to pay BSA for each rifle they sold with their own stamp? And should we assume that BSA was indeed the sole manufacturer of ALL Lee Speeds, because they alone had the machinery to turn out these rifles? That would make sense, but I would love to see this confirmed with some evidence. Most Lee Speeds that I have seen do not exhibit any variations beyond what BSA offered in their 1911 catalog--barrel length, safety, rib, stock, magazine, caliber, etc. This seems to support the notion that BSA was the sole manufacturer, because no else offered any substantial variations that were not offered by BSA themselves. I would love to see evidence to the contrary (beyond the retailer's stamp, of course). However, I am just starting to build up a collection of old catalogs, so there are many sources still to be examined... in that other thread I mentioned above, there is a commercial LSA rifle, and it is stamped LSA and not BSA. The Manton gun is stamped BSA. Perhaps certain resellers simply offered them as BSAs, like Manton did--while others wanted only their own name to be present. (Maybe they paid a higher license fee to BSA for this privilege? I'm guessing here). I cannot imagine that W.W. Greener, for example, would ever sell a firearm that was marked "BSA" anywhere on it.

Here's one last item that may perhaps be an exception. In their 1912 Centennial Catalog, Westley Richards offered "Sporting Lee-Metford Rifles," which featured engraving that looks unlike anything BSA offered, with an Express sight that seems to have an extra leaf, and a buttstock that has a pronounced cheek rest. So I would guess that Westley Richards added these features themselves (at some expense, I'd guess), but it doesn't mean they produced the rifle in their own factory. However, get this: the rifle also has a "detachable barrel"! Now that is unusual. Would BSA have manufactured that, or would WR have made these in their own factory? I'd love to see one up close... Anyway, this catalog page came to my attention because it was reproduced on page 181 of "The British Falling Bock Breechloading Rife from 1865" 2nd. ed. by Jonathan Kirton. (Why a Lee rifle in a book about single-shots? Because the WR catalog page had a Farquharson-type rifle on it, and the Lee just happened to be on the same page!)

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Subject Posted by Posted on
* Lee Speed Sporter mehulkamdar 28/03/06 03:00 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   21/05/07 10:06 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter mehulkamdar   22/05/07 04:45 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Marrakai   22/05/07 08:21 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_Glass   24/04/10 11:25 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Rule303   24/04/10 11:47 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Phillip   31/05/10 11:13 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   01/06/10 07:31 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Brithunter   01/06/10 07:05 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Phillip   01/06/10 07:44 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   22/05/07 10:37 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   01/06/07 06:29 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter DarylS   02/04/06 02:48 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 303   28/03/06 04:57 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter mehulkamdar   30/03/06 02:01 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 303   01/04/06 09:33 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 500Nitro   01/04/06 11:04 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 303   01/04/06 10:32 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 500Nitro   02/04/06 02:19 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter mehulkamdar   03/04/06 05:24 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 303   03/04/06 09:00 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 500Nitro   03/04/06 09:33 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 303   04/04/06 07:20 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter mehulkamdar   05/04/06 01:54 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 7mmSAKO   05/06/07 06:15 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter buckbrush   23/12/07 07:53 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   24/01/08 09:58 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Story   22/10/08 07:04 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Caprivi   19/11/08 03:05 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter lancaster   21/11/08 10:03 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter lancaster   22/11/08 12:28 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   22/11/08 03:29 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   24/11/08 02:56 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter beleg2   25/11/08 06:36 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   03/12/08 07:49 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter lancaster   23/12/08 10:58 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Caprivi   24/12/08 02:44 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter jc5   24/12/08 03:33 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter lancaster   24/12/08 05:13 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter GaryD   05/01/09 02:54 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   10/01/09 09:56 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter jc5   10/01/09 02:33 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   10/01/09 03:35 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   14/01/09 02:15 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   14/01/09 03:55 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   14/01/09 03:59 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   14/01/09 04:08 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   15/01/09 02:34 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   15/01/09 03:38 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   22/03/09 02:19 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   17/06/09 08:53 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Story   23/06/09 09:33 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   23/06/09 07:26 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   04/09/09 05:40 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Story   09/09/09 06:53 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   09/09/09 07:16 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   10/09/09 11:57 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Sarg   17/09/09 09:03 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter darwinmauser   17/09/09 04:40 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter lancaster   24/03/09 05:34 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter rigbymauser   25/03/09 02:07 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter lancaster   25/03/09 04:59 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   15/01/09 03:19 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter jc5   14/01/09 05:01 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   14/01/09 05:59 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter jc5   14/01/09 06:57 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   15/01/09 03:34 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter jc5   15/01/09 04:10 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   21/01/09 12:59 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Marrakai   21/01/09 02:04 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   21/01/09 02:41 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   22/01/09 04:04 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 458Win   15/11/10 02:02 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporters for Sale Old_rifle_nut   22/12/10 05:39 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporters Old_rifle_nut   22/03/11 02:46 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   22/01/09 04:09 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   22/01/09 10:50 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter jc5   22/01/09 12:25 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   12/02/09 10:37 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   12/02/09 05:14 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   15/01/09 05:18 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   15/01/09 05:50 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   15/01/09 08:16 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   15/01/09 09:42 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   15/01/09 09:45 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter lancaster   15/01/09 06:54 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   16/01/09 06:54 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   16/01/09 12:39 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   16/01/09 01:24 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Huvius   16/01/09 01:48 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Old_rifle_nut   24/01/08 10:14 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter mehulkamdar   27/01/08 03:59 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   20/10/08 03:47 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   22/10/08 12:47 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Story   22/10/08 04:54 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   22/10/08 05:43 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   22/10/08 03:45 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   23/10/08 12:46 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Story   23/10/08 05:10 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   24/10/08 09:25 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   24/10/08 01:35 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Story   23/10/08 06:17 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   23/10/08 06:00 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   23/10/08 06:42 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   23/10/08 02:11 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   24/10/08 01:30 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   24/10/08 09:44 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   21/10/08 03:34 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   15/10/08 04:37 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   19/10/08 12:31 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   19/10/08 02:07 AM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter FrankS   19/10/08 03:50 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Carpetsahib   19/10/08 05:52 AM
. * * Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? jc5   28/01/08 06:37 PM
. * * Re: Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? xausa   11/03/09 11:05 AM
. * * Re: 8mm jc5   12/03/09 05:45 PM
. * * Re: 8mm lancaster   13/03/09 12:24 AM
. * * Re: 8mm jc5   13/03/09 02:25 AM
. * * Re: 8mm beleg2   13/03/09 11:25 AM
. * * Re: Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? xausa   12/03/09 09:03 AM
. * * Re: Manton, India Restrictions, BSA sole manufacturer? Nakihunter   28/01/08 07:27 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter 303   05/04/06 06:18 PM
. * * Re: Lee Speed Sporter Taylor416   05/05/06 10:46 PM

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