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The point being you don't weight till the middle of a charge to take the safety off so why would you weight to cock your Krieghoff.

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Sorry, but that's a particularly irresponsible statement, as what you describe is unsafe gun handling procedure. The safety is disengaged only when the rifle is mounted to shoot. If you've stopped, mounted the rifle and are waiting on the shot, fine, the safety can be off. At any other time, the safety of a rifle or shotgun should be "on". This is especially true when you're under stress and expecting the need for a snap shot any second - because people make mistakes under stress, and that's when failure to follow proper procedures are so potentially fatal. That's why safety procedures are drilled - so that you'll do what you trained under stress.

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I disagree it is a "irresponsible statement". When I start a stalk on dangerous game my rifle is (corrected from "un-cocked" to) safety off.. Indeed EVERY PH I have used would probably insist on it. What do you do, stalk up to a herd of cow elephants, step in front of one at 20 yards and THEN ONLY uncock your rifle as you mount the double rifle! Just adding another thing to possibly forget or go wrong in the heat of the moment.

I actually like the idea of a double rifle which can be uncocked like this but don't personally have one. As in a 'normal' double rifle one chambers the rounds usually during the whole hunt, and only unloads it when entering vehicles, buildings or when setting the rifle aside during a rest break. Otherwise the whole time one is relying on the safety mechanism, and on personal safety procedures such as pointing the rifle in a safe direction. How many hunting videos do we see where as the client works his way through bushes, crawling along etc, do we see the muzzle pointing directly at the cameraman! I could name a yearly set of videos and everyone would show this problem. While any mechanical device should be treated with caution, at least an uncocked double adds a margin. A bolt action rifle can have the magazine loaded ready to chamber a round, but to carry a double rifle with unloaded chambers when in the middle of a herd of buffalo or elephant isn't really an option.

I think the fact PHs often carry their rifles a lot and shoot little is why many like this feature. If they want a double in preference to a bolt, then it allows a certain compromise.

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Gregor Woods tried one, and gave the same opinion of it in his book "Rifles for Africa". Like a lot of other folks, I couldn't agree more.

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A great thing about the world is lots of people have different opinions and experiences. Which is why manufacturers offer different features for the markets they are serving.

In Europe in particular, rightly or wrongly, it seems they are moving towards requiring rifles to be able to be decocked. Certainly we are seeing more and more rifles, including double rifles, drillings etc going to these sorts of designs. IMO this IS overkill. Certainly if shooting from a hochsitz or high seat, the rifle should not be loaded until one is in position. Then loaded with the safety on while waiting for a shot to be presented. Similarly with driven game hunts. There is no need to load the rifle until one is in the line in position and ready until the drive begins and the hunter is facing the right direction for safe shooting. The only advantages would be when stalking game with a break open style firearm.

One thing about this un-cocking vs safety mechanism debates is what about all the old vintage manually cocked double rifles and shotguns? Usually no safety at all. Here the hunter would need to carry the DR un-cocked until very close to the time of taking a shot. The speed of cocking these doubles too is much slower than slipping off a safety or using a modern un-cocking "safety". But I would still use an appropriate DR of one of these if I had one in a suitable calibre.

The old manual hammer models do show a decided disadvantage to more modern designs which is why they were superseded.

If we look at cold hard facts, how many PHs or clients have "failed" as a result of the use of one of these uncocking type safeties?


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When it comes to a flanged cartridge vs an un-flanged cartridge I think a flanged cartridge is always preferential to a rimless one in a break open gun or rifle.

However it would not stop me from using say a .375 H&H Mag in a double on a DG hunt if that is what I wanted to use. an ejector model in one would be again preferential.

Personal choices, hey? Everyone lives by their own personal choices.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (03/01/08 02:53 AM)

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