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Perfectly stated, Nitro.

I was not aware of ".45-70 Wars" till informed of their existence in this thread {and a PM sent by a member}.

Having said that, I have never said, and still won't say, that the .45-70 is a .458 Lott, or is comparable to it merely because they share the same groove depth.

As for the .45-70 itself, where does it fall performance-wise?

Based on my use on game and in test media of the .45-70 and .375 H&H Magnum, with expanding bullets {I do not need or use FMJ's and can't comment on them} and using top loads in both, they appear equals at close range.

I don't see why the use of a 9.3x74R, 9.3x62 or .375 H&H Mag on buffalo would be normal and the use of the .45-70 would be a "stunt", though backup with all of them is generally assumed. And with proper solids, maybe they too make the .45-70 the equal of the 9.3's and .375 up close, that I do not know as I haven't tested solids in the .45-70.
: The famed Wally Johnson used a .375 throughout his career, so maybe the argument should be "Is a heavy .45-70 as good up close as the .375 H&H?", not "Is it as good as the .458?"

: Honestly, I thought this post was being handled well, without hyperbolic worship of the silly cartridge, till it was condemned wholesale. Your post here is very helpful.

: Thanks for your excellent summation here. You always have a valuable word to add.

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; Excellent points, 9.3x57 and Nitro.
; Taking a magazine article writer exactly to his written word can leade to long discussions and inflamed tempers. They, some at least, are prone to hyperventilating in script due to getting paid by the word and the writer of the article in question is just one of those 'amplifiers'. I pretty much disregard this drivel and look to the meat of the article forgetting that some people's personalities are very much more 'detail oriented' than mine and they get offended or combative over what I feel are somewhat minor or inconsequential 'exagerations', 'claims', 'ommisions' or downright 'errors', however small or immaterial in my eyes.
; As 9.3 also noted in his last post, I tried to look at the round's value compared to other seemingly "OK" cartridges and just couldn't understand what the 'fuss' was all about. My own meager experience with it and similar rounds and loadings told me the aricle was basically sound. We know John Barnsness shot a bull Cape Buffalo with a Marlin .45/70 using a seemingly 'light' 400gr. solid, at a velocity that is a full 200 fps lower than the ctg. is capable of, yet killed it and the cow behind it. The bull apparently needed more than the first shot, however, the second recipient of that shot was dead - with one even more expended bullet. Now, given that instance with a proper bullet, what part of the .45/70 makes it 'not enough gun' if used with proper bullets? I kinda disagree with 9.3 about the 'stunt' bit. I'd say exiting one buffalo and smashing the shoulder of another behind it is a pretty good 'stunt', especially when you consider the 'origins' of that ctg. runs back 135 years.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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