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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO???
      25/09/06 09:33 PM

Below is quote from Baker's Wild Beasts and their Ways discussing the suitability of a .577 BPE loaded with hardened lead solids.

"All hunters of dangerous animals should accustom themselves to the use of large rifles, and never handle anything smaller than a '577, weighing 12 lbs., with a solid 650 grain hard bullet, and at the least 6 drams of powder. I impress this upon all who challenge the dangers of the chase in tropical climates. No person of average strength will feel the weight of a 12 lb. rifle when accustomed to its use. Although this is too small as a rule for heavy game, it is a powerful weapon when the bullet is hardened by a tough mixture of antimony or quicksilver. A shoulder shot from such a rifle will kill any animal less than an elephant, and the front shot, or temple, or behind the ear, will kill any Asiatic elephant. I would not recommend so small a bore for heavy thick-skinned game, but the '577 rifle is a good protector, and you need not fear any animal in your rambles through the forest when thus armed"

I think this would more than imply at least the suitability (though certainly not ideal nature) of a 10 or even 12 bore loaded with conicals on all game up to and including Asiatic Elephant. Naturally, the four and eight bores would be theoretically fine ("theoretically" due to reasons which will follow) for ALL African species. It is, important, of course to remember that Baker wasn't paying trophy fees either so the incentives (both financial and ethical) to follow up wounded game were quite a bit less than they are now. The impact to which this allowed him to overstate the efficacy of various calibres is naturally open to debate.

Now, why the demise of the bore rifle? First, I would disagree with the point made that there was an immediate move away from BP bore guns to cordite. My guess is that most who could afford a .450 NE definitely bought one and used it for all their primary work. Still, when following up in thick cover, I'd bet substantial sums of money that for many a year most guys turned to their old 8 bore double or even eight or four bore front stuffer. Old hunting habits die hard and I would guess that then, just as today, people were made comfortable in tough situations by knowing that there was a big hole in the end of their barrel. Also, it seems very likely that this transition toward the .450NE was simply because it was lighter than what they were using and certainly quicker to load when compared to that big eight or four bore muzzleloader...not because the old timers thought it would necessarily work a whole lot better on game. Finally, I also attribute a lot of the success of the .450NE to the jacketed bullets rather than their providing velocity and energy in a small package. The "theoretical" power of bore rifles was made "dicey" by the fact that, in casting your own bullets, you controlled the quantity of lead in the pour relative to other metals. Not enough lead and your bullet is qoing to shatter on impact with an elephant skull. Too much lead and it's going to flatten out and underpenetrate that skull or hide for the opposite reason. Thats a bit of a tightrope to be walking when you're spending time in the bush and I'm sure more than a few guys fell off....but it doesn't mean the bore rifle can't or won't get the job done.

I'm not a numbers guy when it comes to this stuff but I have a tough time doubting the bore rifles on dangerous game when I look at the FPE, TKO, and SD figures for an eight bore conical.

JMHO,

John

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr 24/09/06 08:41 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? mehulkamdar   27/09/06 03:25 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? 500grains   25/09/06 02:52 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? jaz   26/09/06 11:37 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? gatsby   26/09/06 01:24 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? Marrakai   26/09/06 10:21 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   27/09/06 03:12 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? mehulkamdar   27/09/06 03:30 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? NitroXAdministrator   27/09/06 12:44 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   28/09/06 10:01 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? pwm   27/09/06 04:20 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   27/09/06 04:39 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? jaz   26/09/06 09:58 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? gatsby   25/09/06 03:37 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? 400NitroExpress   25/09/06 10:19 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? Marrakai   25/09/06 10:00 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? JohnTheGreek   25/09/06 11:16 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? 500grains   25/09/06 11:45 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   26/09/06 01:00 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? gatsby   26/09/06 12:46 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? JohnTheGreek   26/09/06 12:24 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? gatsby   25/09/06 11:16 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? NitroXAdministrator   25/09/06 08:38 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? Double_Trouble   25/09/06 09:56 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? NitroXAdministrator   26/09/06 03:27 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? Double_Trouble   26/09/06 10:11 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? JohnTheGreek   25/09/06 09:33 PM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   25/09/06 04:50 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? gatsby   25/09/06 08:42 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   25/09/06 09:16 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? gatsby   25/09/06 09:41 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   25/09/06 09:47 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? 500grains   25/09/06 10:15 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   25/09/06 10:24 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? 500Nitro   25/09/06 10:07 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   25/09/06 10:16 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? 500Nitro   25/09/06 10:24 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? empirevr   25/09/06 10:33 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? 500Nitro   25/09/06 10:54 AM
. * * Re: H&H 10 bore NITRO??? gatsby   25/09/06 02:50 AM

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