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Bramble:

I understood what you said, and I understand where you're coming from. However, my reaction was exactly the same as L2S's. This is getting off topic and should probably be in the political forum, but I can't suppress a rant.

I'm not unfamiliar with the course that gun control has taken in your country. My folks once lived in the UK and I've spent a fair bit of time there myself. Our own gun banners have long held up the UK as an example of "sane" gun control, so many of us here have paid attention to what has happened there. Seeing what has happened is bad enough, but listening in to the chatter as it goes along is frustrating to the point of torture. Talking to British shooters, even guys in the gun trade, is sometimes like talking to the most rabid of our US gun banners.

Dunblane was a horror that shocked the world. One of the most despicable aspects of it was how shamelessly your government used that tragedy as an excuse for more draconian restrictions that didn't make a single British subject the tiniest bit safer. I can't tell you how many times I heard words like "pragmatic", "reasonable", and "sacrifice" from British shooters during that time.

We've had such events here too. Despite it's Wild West image, it was illegal here in Texas to carry a handgun "on or about the person", and there was no "plain sight" exception in the law. Unless you were traveling to, or from, a lawful sporting activity, or were on a sojourn (extended trip, not routine daily travel), once you left your property you could not be in possession of a handgun. What really shocks most people who are not from here is that, unlike many "liberal" states that had long had concealed carry permit systems, there was no such provision in the laws of Wild and Wooly Texas. Those with a legitimate and dire need to be armed could not legally be so. Neither a judge, nor a chief law enforcement official could help you, as there was nothing in the law that gave them the authority to do so. This was the law in Texas for all of living memory.

Then came our Dunblane. In 1991 a sociopath crashed a Luby's cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, shooting and killing 23 utterly defenseless, innocent people, and wounding 20 more. Texas voters demanded new laws that would make them safer. Although we had to get rid of a popular governor in the process, we got it done. In 1995 we got a "shall issue" concealed carry permit system. Provide a certificate of completion of the mandated course, pass the background check, pay the fee and they HAVE to issue. You don't need a reason. And it works. None of the gloom and doom predictions of the antis have come to pass either. Last I heard there were 150,000 permits issued in Texas, but that is probably a very old number.

The first word I hear from British shooters (gun owners, hunters, target shooters, even some gunmakers for God's sake) about the above Texas example is "vigilantism". How recognizing that it's morally wrong to deny a responsible person the means with which to exercise his God given right to defend his own life is vigilantism is beyond my ability to comprehend.

The difference in outlook strikes me as both stark and visceral. "Subject vs Citizen" is apt. I can offer no better description.

Not a rant at you Bramble, nor at any other Brit here, but a rant for you. Trust me, I mean no offense. I sincerely hope that you and your countrymen can stem the tide. For all it's "gun culture", America doesn't make very good sporting rifles and shotguns. Yours makes the finest that the world has ever known. When the sun sets on the British shooting sportsman, it will be a sad day indeed.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Edited by 400NitroExpress (21/09/06 07:30 PM)

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