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Like many of the 45/70 aficianados canquk makes the mistake of misapplying energy numbers. It is penetration that kills the big DG. The comparison between the 450/400 and the 45/70 falls apart when you look at the sectional density of the bullets cited by canquk. For the 450/400 the sd is .338, the 350 grain 45/70 slug goes only .238 a 400 grainer only .272 Compare this with a sectional density of the 450 grain .458" bullet at .301, iirc, the 480 grainers at .327 and the 500 grainers at .341 The last three are typically ffired at velocity of 2000 to 2300, far, far beyond what any 45/70 can turn up.

Energy numbers only become relevant in the discussion of energy available for the purpose of penetration. This is dependant on the sectional density of the bullet.

Every Brit DG round features a bullet of at least .300 sectional density, save one and it isn't too far off and wasn't too popular either. Velocities ran from the 2025fps range to 2175 for the NE 400/450/465/470/476 rounds and 2400 or so for the 375H&H. Far greater sectional density and far greater velocity for that sectional density. Proven for 108 years since the advent of the 450NE.

In that same period the 45/70 has proven itself a great short range deer rifle, good short range black bear rifle and better than any pistol or revolver for the big bears.

It was and is on par with the 450 Black Powder Express rifles and these were unsuccessful as DG rounds.

BTW, in his article Ganyana mentioned the 220 grain 30-06. Why? Sectional density of .331 and velocity of 2450. Excellent pentration due to excellent energy as applied to the high sectional density bullet.

Can you kill a buff with a 45/70, yes you can. Will it be a reliable round to hunt with - Well the Brits, the guys with the African experience, didn't think so since even before the advent of Nitro powder they veiwed thier 450 BPE rifles as good plains game rifles and the eight bore rifle as the beginning of DG rounds.

No amount of wishful thinking makes the 45/70 a DG round, it is just a stunt hunt round. And it doesn't see much use even for that.

JPK

Editted to note that it is widely known that the lion and leopard are very susceptible to shock from high velocity rounds, at least for the first shot. I recall various thoughts on what is high enough velocity and I believe that the lower end was thought to be 2300 plus. Even the 458wm, a round that far, far exceeds the 45/70 in any and every measurable way doesn't make a good cat cartridge.

Edited by JPK (22/03/06 12:04 PM)

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