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Hunter4752001
.300 member


Reged: 25/01/10
Posts: 133
Loc: Australia
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70
      25/12/23 11:30 AM

Forget AR2205 until you actually see it on the shelves and don't believe a thing Thales claim.

Numerous rumours were circulated about the issues with pistol powders. In reality (and publicly admitted by Thales), Thales licenced the production to General Dynamics in Canada who now supply it to Hodgdon for the US market (Clays, International, Universal).

Thales' main customer for AR2205 was Hodgdon who marketed it in the US, variously as H4227 and later as IMR4227 (Hodgdon hold the rights to the name IMR4227 and can label anything they like as such). Lately I've seen photos of jugs of IMR4227 with 'Made in Canada' on the label. Possible that Thales sold production rights to General Dynamics Canada and don't give a crap about Australian customers.

No secret that Thales and General Dynamics are in partnership for a number of high end defence products. So the question remains did Thales sacrifice their Australian powder customers as part of the quid pro quo for their other endeavours?

The "Winchester" ball powders are actually manufactured by General Dynamics Florida with distributions rights owned by Hodgdon. Olin Corp (Winchester) has a significant commercial relationship with Thales. Olin Corp (Winchester) whereby Olin manufactures all the 9mm and some of the 5.56mm ammo which Thales then supplies to the ADF. Olin Corp (Winchester) Australia are a significant distributor of Thales powder in Australia and stopped importing Winchester branded ball powders.

Of course there's no market manipulation or cartel behaviour going on......

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* Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227 20/09/23 08:29 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Rule303   20/09/23 10:41 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   20/09/23 12:50 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   20/09/23 11:53 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   20/09/23 12:51 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   20/09/23 04:29 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Hunter4752001   20/09/23 05:05 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Rule303   21/09/23 07:04 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 m239   21/09/23 07:11 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 m239   21/09/23 07:13 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   21/09/23 08:13 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   24/09/23 07:15 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   25/09/23 05:55 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 m239   25/09/23 06:06 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   26/09/23 07:50 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Hunter4752001   26/09/23 08:34 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   26/09/23 03:31 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   26/09/23 04:07 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 m239   26/09/23 07:30 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   26/09/23 07:37 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Rule303   27/09/23 07:52 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 m239   27/09/23 09:43 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   05/10/23 08:51 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 93x64mm   05/10/23 10:25 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   08/10/23 04:20 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   04/12/23 08:08 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 93x64mm   05/12/23 06:45 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   14/12/23 03:33 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   14/12/23 07:43 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   15/12/23 05:20 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   15/12/23 04:35 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 eagle27   15/12/23 07:08 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   15/12/23 04:37 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   15/12/23 04:40 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   16/12/23 05:15 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 93x64mm   16/12/23 06:11 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   18/12/23 01:31 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   20/12/23 08:19 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   20/12/23 12:22 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 93x64mm   20/12/23 10:35 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   21/12/23 12:36 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   21/12/23 08:40 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   21/12/23 08:48 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   21/12/23 09:13 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   21/12/23 11:42 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Rule303   21/12/23 01:04 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   22/12/23 03:01 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   22/12/23 07:10 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 93x64mm   22/12/23 07:41 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   22/12/23 03:39 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   23/12/23 03:59 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   23/12/23 07:04 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   24/12/23 04:53 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   24/12/23 02:29 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 m239   24/12/23 09:54 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   25/12/23 03:22 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   25/12/23 07:06 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 93x64mm   25/12/23 07:10 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Hunter4752001   25/12/23 11:30 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   26/12/23 04:11 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   27/12/23 01:12 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   01/04/24 05:21 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   26/12/23 05:08 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   26/12/23 08:22 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   25/09/23 07:10 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 NitroXAdministrator   25/09/23 07:11 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 Rule303   26/09/23 06:56 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   25/09/23 08:38 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   20/09/23 05:20 PM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 DarylS   20/09/23 09:17 AM
. * * Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70 TonyD227   20/09/23 12:50 PM

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