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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

Hunter4752001
.300 member

Reged: 25/01/10
Posts: 124
Loc: Australia

Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70
25/12/23 11:30 AM

Forget AR2205 until you actually see it on the shelves and don't believe a thing Thales claim.

Numerous rumours were circulated about the issues with pistol powders. In reality (and publicly admitted by Thales), Thales licenced the production to General Dynamics in Canada who now supply it to Hodgdon for the US market (Clays, International, Universal).

Thales' main customer for AR2205 was Hodgdon who marketed it in the US, variously as H4227 and later as IMR4227 (Hodgdon hold the rights to the name IMR4227 and can label anything they like as such). Lately I've seen photos of jugs of IMR4227 with 'Made in Canada' on the label. Possible that Thales sold production rights to General Dynamics Canada and don't give a crap about Australian customers.

No secret that Thales and General Dynamics are in partnership for a number of high end defence products. So the question remains did Thales sacrifice their Australian powder customers as part of the quid pro quo for their other endeavours?

The "Winchester" ball powders are actually manufactured by General Dynamics Florida with distributions rights owned by Hodgdon. Olin Corp (Winchester) has a significant commercial relationship with Thales. Olin Corp (Winchester) whereby Olin manufactures all the 9mm and some of the 5.56mm ammo which Thales then supplies to the ADF. Olin Corp (Winchester) Australia are a significant distributor of Thales powder in Australia and stopped importing Winchester branded ball powders.

Of course there's no market manipulation or cartel behaviour going on......

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Subject	Posted by	Posted on
Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	20/09/23 08:29 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Rule303	20/09/23 10:41 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	20/09/23 12:50 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	20/09/23 11:53 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	20/09/23 12:51 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	20/09/23 04:29 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Hunter4752001	20/09/23 05:05 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Rule303	21/09/23 07:04 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	m239	21/09/23 07:11 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	m239	21/09/23 07:13 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	21/09/23 08:13 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	24/09/23 07:15 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	25/09/23 05:55 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	m239	25/09/23 06:06 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	26/09/23 07:50 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Hunter4752001	26/09/23 08:34 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	26/09/23 03:31 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	26/09/23 04:07 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	m239	26/09/23 07:30 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	26/09/23 07:37 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Rule303	27/09/23 07:52 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	m239	27/09/23 09:43 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	05/10/23 08:51 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	93x64mm	05/10/23 10:25 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	08/10/23 04:20 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	04/12/23 08:08 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	93x64mm	05/12/23 06:45 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	14/12/23 03:33 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	14/12/23 07:43 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	15/12/23 05:20 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	15/12/23 04:35 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	eagle27	15/12/23 07:08 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	15/12/23 04:37 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	15/12/23 04:40 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	16/12/23 05:15 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	93x64mm	16/12/23 06:11 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	18/12/23 01:31 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	20/12/23 08:19 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	20/12/23 12:22 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	93x64mm	20/12/23 10:35 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	21/12/23 12:36 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	21/12/23 08:40 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	21/12/23 08:48 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	21/12/23 09:13 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	21/12/23 11:42 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Rule303	21/12/23 01:04 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	22/12/23 03:01 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	22/12/23 07:10 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	93x64mm	22/12/23 07:41 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	22/12/23 03:39 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	23/12/23 03:59 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	23/12/23 07:04 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	24/12/23 04:53 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	24/12/23 02:29 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	m239	24/12/23 09:54 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	25/12/23 03:22 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	25/12/23 07:06 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	93x64mm	25/12/23 07:10 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Hunter4752001	25/12/23 11:30 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	26/12/23 04:11 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	27/12/23 01:12 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	01/04/24 05:21 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	26/12/23 05:08 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	26/12/23 08:22 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	25/09/23 07:10 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	NitroX	25/09/23 07:11 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	Rule303	26/09/23 06:56 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	25/09/23 08:38 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	20/09/23 05:20 PM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	DarylS	20/09/23 09:17 AM
Re: Australian Gunsmith to regulate.a Sabatti 45/70	TonyD227	20/09/23 12:50 PM

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