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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: homemade doubles
      16/06/05 08:46 PM

Bloodnativ,
I wasn't aware of any mud-slinging.
I think that perhaps some of my points have been missed.
I have already stated that while I may prefer a certain solder method, anyone else can use whatever solder they like.

The thing that concerns me is that there are quite a few errors in some of the statements made in this thread.

Things like...
In reply to:

Tin/lead melts at about 400 deg.F. Force-44 melts at about 600. Silver melts at 1150 to 1350. You need near "red heat" to melt silver solder and at those temperatures, molecular changes are occuring in the steel which are NOT strength-enhancing




To start with , the melt temp is not that important as solder will not be much use at melt temp.
FLOW temp is the important one.
Force 44 does NOT melt at about 600! It actually flows at 475 F.
Perhaps the writer of that info is getting confused with HI-Temp Force 44 which flows at 650 F.

Silver solder actually flows at just over 1200 F.
This is still a full 200-250 F Deg below the minimum temp required to soften or anneal medium carbon steels.
"red heat" gives a very vague description of how hot the steel actually is.
1200 F will only take the steel to a DULL red colour, 1400 F will make dull cherry red and 1600 will produce full cherry red.

In reply to:

All that the solder does is to hold the barrels into the mono-bloc, it contributes zero to the ability of the assembly to retain and withstand pressure




This one really gets me going and is totally wrong.
On any double, the join of barrels to the lumps is CRITICAL regarding the strength of the whole deal.
This is why chopper lumps are considered to be the ultimate system as the lumps are forged integrally to the barrels.
On a monoblok system the lumps are part of the monoblok and the barrel to mono solder join has to withstand the FULL AXIAL LOAD.

In reply to:

As I said earlier, Force-44 solder has a tensile strenth of 28,000, pounds per square inch. Calculate the surface area of the joint and you will find that the total joint strength is FAR in excess of the force generated by ANY rifle cartridge.




Actually, Force 44 has a MAXIMUM tensile strength of 28,000.
Its true strength, even with a good join may be only HALF that at 14,000.

Also it has been stated more than once that 4-5000 psi tin/lead solder will "do fine" but the writer wants us to do any calculations at 28,000!


This is not meant to be mud-slinging or bickering.
It is just dealing with what has been stated in this thread.

Now to avoid any confusion I'll say this again.

Use any solder you like.

For double rifle barrel to mono join I PREFER silver solder.
Why, because the tiny caress of finger on trigger ignites a 50,000 psi bomb only a couple of inches away from your face.
Think about that and then do your calculations at the 4000 psi strength of tin/lead soft solder.
You may get a shock!





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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* homemade doubles CMWill 01/06/05 12:59 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   02/06/05 10:50 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CMWill   02/06/05 11:51 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles doublegunfan   03/06/05 01:01 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CMWill   03/06/05 12:10 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   03/06/05 07:56 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CMWill   04/06/05 09:37 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   04/06/05 05:19 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CMWill   05/06/05 07:25 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   05/06/05 08:18 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CMWill   05/06/05 01:08 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Marrakai   06/06/05 11:42 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CMWill   06/06/05 12:37 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles balltip   12/06/05 04:07 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   13/06/05 05:19 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles balltip   14/06/05 12:00 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Marrakai   13/06/05 10:26 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Bloodnativ   13/06/05 10:00 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles new_guy   13/06/05 11:03 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Bloodnativ   14/06/05 02:53 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   14/06/05 07:11 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   14/06/05 06:23 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   14/06/05 10:46 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   16/06/05 03:57 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Bloodnativ   16/06/05 05:03 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   16/06/05 08:46 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Bloodnativ   17/06/05 12:15 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   17/06/05 08:44 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles ALAN_MCKENZIE   17/06/05 10:08 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles deant   18/06/05 01:01 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles NitroXAdministrator   18/06/05 04:22 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   18/06/05 09:04 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles ALAN_MCKENZIE   18/06/05 09:34 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles NitroXAdministrator   19/06/05 02:10 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles deant   20/06/05 08:55 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles NitroXAdministrator   20/06/05 11:33 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles mickey   21/06/05 04:25 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles NitroXAdministrator   21/06/05 01:02 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 500Nitro   22/06/05 08:10 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles NitroXAdministrator   22/06/05 12:33 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   22/06/05 07:51 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   27/06/05 04:41 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles unspellable   22/06/05 10:37 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   23/06/05 07:44 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CptCurlAdministrator   23/06/05 10:05 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   26/06/05 11:26 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CptCurlAdministrator   23/06/05 10:03 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CptCurlAdministrator   23/06/05 12:42 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   23/06/05 05:12 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles balltip   22/06/05 07:27 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles CptCurlAdministrator   21/06/05 01:34 PM
. * * Re: soldering the monobloc unspellable   21/06/05 01:10 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   17/06/05 08:55 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Marrakai   17/06/05 11:14 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Bloodnativ   17/06/05 03:42 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles 4seventy   15/06/05 09:16 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Marrakai   15/06/05 10:47 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   16/06/05 06:57 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Marrakai   14/06/05 10:31 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   14/06/05 10:51 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles mickey   13/06/05 12:21 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Bloodnativ   13/06/05 01:28 PM
. * * Re: homemade doubles NitroXAdministrator   03/06/05 01:17 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles unspellable   03/06/05 03:43 AM
. * * Re: homemade doubles Ron_Vella   02/06/05 08:28 PM

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