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Ok back to me.

My self imposed limit is still 500 meters. About 550 yards, and yes I do like to shoot much closer. MUCH closer when I can. As I said, 500 meters is a LIMIT.

But back to the points you make.
They are the same as mine. I have killed no buffalo with ANY A-frames or ANY Noslers. I have however killed some with German made 404 Jeffery ammo. RWS I think they were, (I can't remember now for sure, but I do know they were made in Germany in the late 60s or very early 70s.) That was a long time ago, and I was using what I was given. 400 grain bullets, both soft and solids. Most shots were made at 35 yards or so. I had no problems with any of them.

And I have shot an elk with a 300 grain Partition end to end. Got an exit too. One shot is not what I'd call an exhaustive test, but I can tell you a 375 H&H with a 300 gr Nosler will go end to end through a bull elk. It was hit in the right "butt" and the bullet came out at the center of the neck near the chest.

Last counter point:
I didn't say the Swifts would not expand at 500. I said they will not expand as well as the Partitions at 500, from the guns and calibers I shoot. How do I know? I really DON'T know exactly, but hunting with men that do use the A-frames and seeing the exits on elk and deer at long range, and then comparing them to the exits I am getting from the partitions, I am guessing that the partitions are doing a better job, just because the exits are about 2X larger as a rule.
Again I will "cop to the facts". I can't say I know, but I can say I have evidence to make be believe.

So that means you'd have to have side by side comparisons too Ripp. Same or very similar caliber rifles, same velocity and same bullet weight.

I think we'd need to live a very long time to have definitive info.

I am the former CEO of Cast Performance Bullet Co. In the making of our bullets and testing them I also used other bullets as comparisons for out files. Both rifle and handgun bullets were tested by me. Many thousands of them. Most were shot in lab tests, but many thousands were shot at game all over the world too.

The problem with bullet tests is the same thing I was mentioning in the last post. Variables! LOTS of them.

We have to get into generalities when doing any meaningful comparison. Generally speaking, bullet X, from gun X, at target X, will give X results. But we all know of or have seen when all the Xs gave us a Y, and no one seems to be able to explain it.

I know of a small man (or boy) who was shot 7 times from about 15 yards with 7.62 NATO ammo, all of which went through his chest and he didn't even seem to feel any pain. Ran forward into the lines of the ones doing the shooting, and got past them about 15 feet before he just collapsed. I could not believe that much damage could be absorbed by a small man (maybe 110 pounds) and none hit or traumatized the spine bad enough to drop him. But it happened.
Why?
I have no idea.

His back was all but gone, but he didn't even seem to care.

I have killed buffalo as I said. I personally know several men that have hair raising stories about them. Me.... all I shot just fell down, or fell within a very short time.
I was not killing big bulls as a rule, just meat.
I know that placement is important, but it was very easy at such close ranges and I never saw one that was any harder to kill than cattle were back home. Does that prove anything? I don't know.

I would say it proves that a shot that breaks the neck or hits the brain is deadly and fast.

I personally never shot any buff with anything but the 404. I saw a few killed with FALs and I would say a 147 grain FMJ is a poor choice. Still the men killing them were very good marksmen and would hit them in the brain. A 7.62 NATO from the correct angle will kill buff and I know that to be a fact, because I have seen it about 10 times.

Back to the idea of generalities.
I believe from over 50 years of hunting and shooting that the most important part of the equation is the man. If you have a weapon with limitations you need to work within those limitations. I once killed an elk with a sharp stick. It's called an arrow. I did it only one time, but I did it. Not NEAR as good a weapon as a 270, but I still put that elk in the freezer.

Anyway, I am old ------ and rambling now... so I leave it to you again.

Edited by szihn (03/12/16 12:54 AM)

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