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With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group. Daryl I think that Somewhere around I have a lyman tong tool and dies for a hornet.

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I am a firm believer in this as well. Modern metallurgy, proper machining and careful assembly of many of today's rifles produce really astounding results. Careful hand loads dialled in to the specific rifle brings things in even tighter.

I have had tremendously impressive results with all Sako rifles (models 75 and 85) if one excludes the Finnlights which for me have tended to hover around or a little larger than 1 to 1.5 MOA. The TRG and the Sako stainless varmint were small ragged hole rifles at 100 yards. My cousin had a Tikka .308 and when we put good hand loads through it, it was a solid 1/2 MOA.

I have seen an AR shoot teeny tiny ragged holes albeit with a custom Lilja heavy barrel. Every Blaser I've ever touched shot incredibly tight groups as well.

Remington 700s for me have always tended to shoot very well and will often go 1 MOA or better. Too bad they can't figure out how to drill the scope base holes in a straight line.

With the newer hardware, one will have expectations set very very high compared to the old days. On the flip side, everything is possible on the Internet and there is always far greater fantasy than reality, where expanding the truth is the norm, however I do know that if I have a modern bolt gun that doesn't live up to Internet fantasy, I am uninterested in owning it. I do not expect MOA out of most self loaders, lever guns, doubles, and pumps, but if a modern bolt gun can't measure up, to me it is only as useful as a tent peg and firewood.

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Okay, just so I understand; you're saying I can go out today and expect to buy an ultra-light hunting rifle in something other than a 17 or 22 caliber (or other than in one of the specialist low intensity BR rigs) - so lets say a bog-standard 7mm-o8, .270, .280, 7 mm Rem Mag, 30-06 .300 Win Mag and I can fully expect that rifle (despite the fixed twist rate and paper thin barrel walls and less than perfect chamber) to consistently shoot sub-MOA groups across the full spectrum of the available projectile weights for that caliber? And you're suggesting that's the norm - with the good manufacturers?

Cos if that's true I think the OP should absolutely take his rifle back to the dealer and insist that it's replaced pronto. Absolutely.!

Edited by lonewulf (10/04/16 03:59 PM)

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