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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Bowhunting + Bows, Spears & Knives

dracb
.300 member


Reged: 28/02/13
Posts: 133
Loc: British Columbia
Re: back up pistol for bears
      03/10/14 09:06 PM

Ripp

Over a 45 year career much of which was spent in remote campsites located from Alaska to Mexico (and way beyond) I have seen a number of bears killed with a variety of handgun and rifle calibers.Back in the 1960's I was instructing at geology field courses based out of tent camps in Montana and camping solo in the Crazy mountains and the Beartooths doing research.I thought I needed a sidearm to defend from bears and other predators so I bought one of the then new Ruger 41 magnums which started my quest for the perfect bear gun.

When my children were young they were often in camp and I have encouraged my young geologists to bring their families to camp also. As a partial consequence of children and wives in camp we had little patience for a bear in or around the camp. Even though every effort was made to keep a clean camp and to burn garbage every day it was unfortunately not that unusual for a bear to start raiding the cook shack or storage tent. Back in the 60's there was one site near a park that was particularly bad for bears. The park rangers would trap problem bears and transport them out to the bush road that led to our camp for release. Even though their release site was 10 miles or so from the camp their problems commonly became ours. A bear in camp was typically chased out a couple of times and if it persisted in returning or refused to be chased out they were shot by who ever was in camp at the time with whatever they were carrying at the time. A 357 will indeed kill a big black bear as will a 41 magnum or 44 magnum or the 45 super I carried in latter years. As long as the bear is not agitated and adrenalized, pistol calibers seem to work moderately well given good shot placement. Experience suggests that if the bear does not go down with the first shot it will probably take several shots and the shooter will probably wind up hunting for it wishing he had something much larger and more effective in his hands. I can only remember two bears that offered to attack people in camp. One was a grizzly on a dead run that was dropped as if struck by lightening by a 44 magnum fired from a model 94. I was amazed while the shooter apparently thought it was no big deal. The other was a black that had just ripped the plywood side off of the food storage shed and objected to being chased out of camp. It was shot twice through the front of the chest with a 450/400 3 inch using vintage 400 grain Kynock soft points. No substantial bones were broken and it did not initially drop as if hit by lightening or anything else, teaching me that one can feel very small and foolish for tempting fate as one stands there with an empty rifle in one's hands.
More ammunition capacity is muuuuuuch better.

Before I started spending much time in bear country I had an opportunity to interview two people that had been mauled. Both told me that they would not have had time to defend themselves if they had a gun in their hands. In one case I was told the first time he knew a bear was there was when it bit him. The other related that he was walking up a creek in the early morning,stepped around a bend in the trail and was swatted by the bear. As I recall the bear after biting and cuffing him about buried him. It kept returning to check on him during the day. He was finally rescued by the helicopter pilot that was to pick him up at the end of the work day. It was partly on the basis of their comments that I started carrying the 45 super. I figured if I really had to use a pistol in extremis I would need that magic golden BB of legend to stop a mad bear. I was more likely to find that golden BB with a series of double taps from a pistol that I shot in IPSC competitions and that I could also shot well with my weak arm. It seems the hands and arms get a bit gnawed on while the bear is having his way with you.

The short summary is that a pistol is a distant and unreliable second choice to a powerful, rapid firing, multi-shot shoulder weapon for up close bear work. I kept a 450 31/4 inch or 450/400 3 DR for a camp gun for a while until finding two shots might not always be enough. Now I use a pump 12 bore with hardened round balls as bear medicine when given the choice. The trouble is it is hard to work carrying the damned thing and if it is on a sling over the shoulder it is slow to get into action. I few years back I bought some 870's from a mining company that was shutting down. They had issued them to their field personnel along with a scabbard that attached to their packs so they could draw it over their shoulder. The problem with the bigger and more powerful pistols than the 44 magnum is that they are heavy and after a short time one tends to find excuses to not carry it. The mountain pistol in 44mag or similar in 41mag is in my opinion a reasonable compromise. Unfortunately as a consequence or where I now live I no longer enjoy the privilege of carrying a sidearm in the jurisdictions where I work most of the time.


According to a Bear Smart course instructor I hired a couple of years ago the new bear sprays are reportedly more effective than handguns at stopping bear attacks.

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"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* back up pistol for bears Scott 01/11/09 02:58 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   01/11/09 04:40 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Altamaha   01/11/09 07:56 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   01/11/09 08:20 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears *DELETED* Altamaha   02/11/09 04:02 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears poprivit   02/11/09 05:24 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   02/11/09 05:42 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   02/11/09 07:36 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   15/02/10 10:40 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   15/02/10 11:44 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Tatume   15/02/10 10:10 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Homer   15/02/10 08:33 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears FRJ   05/05/12 02:40 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears WesF   11/05/10 03:21 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DUGABOY1   24/06/11 04:40 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   24/06/11 07:39 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   25/06/11 12:09 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   25/06/11 02:00 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   25/06/11 02:43 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears PHMadness   25/06/11 06:43 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   25/06/11 07:32 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears aromakr   09/12/11 11:16 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   09/12/11 12:24 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Sarg   09/12/11 04:28 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   10/12/11 05:30 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears ruffcountry   09/05/12 11:28 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   10/05/12 12:46 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   01/10/14 10:36 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   02/10/14 02:13 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   02/10/14 05:09 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   02/10/14 06:17 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears dracb   03/10/14 09:06 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   04/10/14 12:09 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   04/10/14 01:53 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   02/10/14 12:47 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   02/10/14 02:28 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   03/10/14 02:01 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears NitroXAdministrator   30/05/12 02:41 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears NitroXAdministrator   30/05/12 02:42 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Rule303   30/05/12 11:32 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears NitroXAdministrator   30/05/12 10:25 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   30/05/12 11:56 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears NitroXAdministrator   31/05/12 12:06 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   31/05/12 12:21 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears NitroXAdministrator   01/06/12 01:48 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears aromakr   02/06/12 12:40 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   30/09/14 10:56 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   01/10/14 07:48 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   01/10/14 07:54 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Jim_C   01/10/14 05:13 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   02/10/14 02:10 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears controlled_feed   09/12/11 10:12 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Paul   16/02/10 10:03 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   19/02/10 12:35 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Paul   20/02/10 12:39 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   20/02/10 01:31 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   17/02/10 01:10 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   17/02/10 02:12 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   17/02/10 02:39 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   18/02/10 01:09 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Tatume   18/02/10 11:16 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   17/02/10 02:55 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   18/02/10 01:05 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 450_366   17/02/10 06:46 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 500grains   17/02/10 01:47 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Mike_Bailey   17/02/10 02:15 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   17/02/10 02:25 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   17/02/10 02:18 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   17/02/10 02:40 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   17/02/10 02:47 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 450_366   17/02/10 03:53 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   17/02/10 07:27 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   17/02/10 11:44 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   17/02/10 03:22 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears tinker   17/02/10 03:48 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   17/02/10 02:14 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Grenadier   16/02/10 03:18 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   16/02/10 05:42 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   16/02/10 06:16 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Dphariss   21/02/10 05:03 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 404bearslayer   16/02/10 06:54 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Mike_Bailey   16/02/10 08:49 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   16/02/10 01:37 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Homer   14/02/10 06:52 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears NitroXAdministrator   15/02/10 03:28 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears lancaster   14/02/10 07:31 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Kalunga   14/02/10 09:10 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   15/02/10 12:38 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   15/02/10 03:02 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   15/02/10 03:17 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Grenadier   15/02/10 05:10 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   15/02/10 06:57 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Grenadier   15/02/10 08:01 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   15/02/10 09:10 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Tatume   15/02/10 07:17 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   15/02/10 07:44 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Scott   02/11/09 02:33 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Dphariss   21/02/10 04:45 PM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears 9.3x57   22/02/10 01:30 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Der_Jaeger   22/02/10 02:57 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears Ripp   22/02/10 06:47 AM
. * * Re: back up pistol for bears DarylS   22/02/10 03:26 AM

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