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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
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Re: Handgun of the Empire
      20/08/14 11:07 PM

John: You started it...

I'll just make mention of a few things as I have researched these issues quite a bit {spurred on due to my disappointing experience w/ .45 ACP many years ago}.

1} The referred-to Thompson-LaGarde Tests were a farce and should be studied by any student of handgun lethality and history of the .45 ACP cartridge. Their conclusions fly in the face of their own test results!

2} The "Charging Moros" line was also nonsense. I had my doubts and began to wonder about whether that was a myth as tho we read of the .45 being introduced as a result of handgun problems and lack of stopping power we do not read of much after that, meaning, "did the .45 work?". The answer to the latter is..."No". The gunwriter Jack Lott also was curious about this and he did research and wrote up a piece proving it did not and what is more, neither did the 12 ga '97 shotguns or Krags that were issued during the insurrection!

3} Gen Julian Hatcher {US Army Ordnance General of great fame} in his excellent c. 1935 tome on handguns explains the real reason the .38 Colts were dumped. They were mechanical abortions. Junk. Breakdowns occurred and the mechanism was improved {resulting later in the excellent Army Special and Official Police w/ essentially the same actions as the later Python}. The resurrected .45 Colts served reasonably well MECHANICALLY. He gets twisted around in his book, tho, first saying that the stopping power of the various big .45's was superior but then citing cases where there failed.

4} Development of the .45 ACP followed T-LaG's recommendations which the Army swallowed BUT, AS HATCHER NOTES...the end result was not what they really hoped for in that a round nose hard jacketed FMJ is a very poor creator of trauma {I don't like the term "stopper" as with hard service bullets, it really doesn't apply}. Indeed, the gun shooting ammo developed as a result of experience in the Filipino conflict was the special 255 grain loading for the Colt New Service. At 900+ fps it is just about the most powerful service round ever loaded, maybe bested a bit by the huge Montenegro wheelgun round. That semi-pointed bullet penetrates! But again, as for trauma in little folks like people, well...

Remember, all of this applies to round nose lead or hard FMJ bullets.

I was a devoted .45 ACP fan for many years until my experience and research demonstrated flaws in the storyline and terminal reality of the ".45" service rounds. I daily carry a 9mm due to one more reason among others; modern JHP loadings have made all the standard service/carry rounds virtually equal, and...the 9mm holds more of them in the handle.

John, it is a really interesting topic, so I guess starting another thread could be interesting?

Back on topic; the Webley was/is a mechanically sound revolver. It works. THAT is its greatest feature, and when you think about it, that is the greatest feature of many of the sterling performers of yesteryear; during a time when many service weapons were "iffy", the Colt, smith and webley revolvers chambered in .455 were dead nuts reliable, excellent under most conditions and superior to the "competition".

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* Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator 30/07/14 01:32 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   21/08/14 12:13 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   21/08/14 01:34 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   21/08/14 02:01 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   21/08/14 05:51 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   27/08/14 10:54 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire JabaliHunter   11/09/14 08:57 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   28/08/14 05:29 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   12/09/14 02:46 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   12/09/14 04:47 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   09/10/14 07:49 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   09/10/14 07:51 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   12/10/14 04:27 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   12/10/14 04:31 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   13/10/14 11:49 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Checkman   14/10/14 10:51 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   14/10/14 08:24 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire CptCurlAdministrator   15/10/14 11:27 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   16/10/14 10:55 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   18/03/18 04:31 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   16/10/14 11:02 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   17/10/14 12:51 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   17/10/14 12:53 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire mehulkamdar   17/10/14 03:09 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   17/10/14 10:18 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   17/10/14 11:03 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   27/10/14 10:34 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire CptCurlAdministrator   31/10/14 10:25 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Ahmed577   01/11/14 01:25 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   18/03/18 04:34 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   18/03/18 06:32 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   18/03/18 06:38 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Ahmed577   18/03/18 07:54 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   18/03/18 08:22 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 416rigby   19/03/18 03:54 AM
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. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   21/03/18 12:20 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Levallois   03/10/18 12:13 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   04/10/18 02:40 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   21/06/20 10:22 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/03/18 05:19 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   21/03/18 12:56 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Ahmed577   21/03/18 01:46 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   21/03/18 01:53 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Pugwash   21/03/18 03:18 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   21/03/18 04:10 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   19/03/18 05:44 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   10/11/14 08:56 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   25/11/14 05:32 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   28/11/14 09:16 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire CptCurlAdministrator   29/11/14 12:57 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire John303   04/12/14 02:14 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire John303   05/12/14 07:34 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   07/03/15 05:08 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire CptCurlAdministrator   07/03/15 01:52 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   07/03/15 04:20 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   08/03/15 07:18 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire greenshoots   08/03/15 06:53 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Sarg   09/03/15 06:06 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   09/03/15 04:03 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   09/03/15 06:20 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Sarg   09/03/15 07:18 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire greenshoots   10/03/15 12:18 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Sarg   10/03/15 07:47 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   10/03/15 05:00 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire karamoja   10/03/15 02:04 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   10/03/15 02:14 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire greenshoots   10/03/15 02:53 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire greenshoots   10/03/15 03:19 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   10/03/15 05:42 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   10/03/15 05:58 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire greenshoots   10/03/15 08:15 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   11/03/15 03:32 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   11/03/15 03:43 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   11/03/15 04:47 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   10/03/15 08:28 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   11/03/15 03:11 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Checkman   20/03/15 04:10 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Ahmed577   20/03/15 07:26 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Checkman   06/04/15 03:19 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire karamoja   10/03/15 07:16 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Rookandrabbit   09/03/15 05:02 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire greenshoots   07/03/15 06:44 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   08/03/15 01:45 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   01/11/14 03:26 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire mckinney   01/11/14 07:23 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   16/10/14 07:07 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   09/10/14 07:09 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   18/03/18 04:15 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire mckinney   31/08/14 12:29 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   30/07/14 04:47 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   31/07/14 02:22 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire TH44   31/07/14 08:43 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   31/07/14 02:12 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   20/08/14 05:58 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   20/08/14 05:57 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 06:58 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   20/08/14 07:47 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 09:39 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 10:18 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   20/08/14 11:07 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Checkman   11/09/14 05:38 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 11:35 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire 9.3x57   21/08/14 12:01 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 11:47 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 11:59 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 10:38 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire NitroXAdministrator   20/08/14 10:50 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   31/07/14 05:48 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   01/08/14 01:25 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Marrakai   01/08/14 09:38 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   01/08/14 04:06 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire CptCurlAdministrator   01/08/14 11:05 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   02/08/14 07:22 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Checkman   11/08/14 01:37 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire DarylS   11/08/14 04:04 AM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire eagle27   11/08/14 04:13 PM
. * * Re: Handgun of the Empire Marrakai   11/08/14 11:21 PM

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