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Interesting thread.

A few comments.

I believe the carbine load was actually 55 grains of BP and 405 grain bullet.

Daryl's info on Johnson is good stuff. I interviewed Mr Johnson not long before he died. Very interesting fellow and I wrote it up and it was published in RIFLE Magazine as a sort-of eulogy. He told me his "Big Fifty" as he called it was a prototype and never was completely finished. He sheared a screw on the magazine and monkeyed a fix that included tar-taping to the barrel and used it like that for the rest of his shooting life. Quite a character. Owned a company Alaska Diesel out of Seattle area.

I've owned a Marlin Ballard-rifled .45-70 20" gun since the first year they were made. I've killed deer, bear and a couple big range cattle, one of which due to the perverted sense of humor of the rancher charged me. Hit by a car it had a broken leg, chased the Sheriff's deputy under his patrol car and then took off after the mounted rancher, all of which happened unbeknownst to me. A friend and I were going to walk up to her and shoot her with his .38. I'm glad I decided to test out that new handload from the .45-70!!

Anyway, that load used 45 grains of 3031 + a card and felt wad plus the now-discontinued Lee cast Hollow Point bullet, maybe the best bullet ever made for the .45-70. Not like the 330 Gould bullet, it has a 300 grain shank that acts just like a Nosler Partition. In tests posted here a long time ago, it produced penetration equal to the 300 grain Swift with jug and board damage similar as well.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?1244-Bullet-Tests-6-5-Prvi-375-366-Speer-45-70-Repost

That cow that came for me was shot between the eyes and just a smidgen low than a line drawn between the eyes. We recovered the bullet after it had also puled the neck vertebrae and travelled for 24 inches. What would a big range cow {1200-1300 lbs} go compared to Aussie buff? A yearling maybe? I really don't know. Certainly not a big bull.

I really cannot say if it is a good buff load, or rather, I'll say I would not choose it as the velocity is only 1640 fps and the bullet only 402 grains, but it would for sure do in a pinch.

Let's not forget that MANY buffalo/bison were killed with both White-carried and Indian-owned frontloaders, and they were not as a rule loaded very heavy. Of course, on horseback you can afford to stick a bullet in one and follow it till it drops, but no doubt many got away carrying lead. I'm sure not all Indian buffalo killing was done on horseback, either, of course, and also have little doubt it got to be a bit exciting sometimes, too.

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