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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

doubleriflejack
.333 member


Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets
      04/04/14 06:53 AM

hunter angler: "besides the fact that muzzle grinding is not the manner in which a purist wants his double rifle regulated, I believe independent reviews quoted in this forum showed/claimed that the Sabattis so doctored, in order to expedite shipment and sale, would only shoot with any accuracy the one brand of ammunition with which they were originally test fired at the factory. Although doubles are normally regulated with one make of ammunition, other brands of cartridges with standard loads in the same caliber will normally also function adequately. In other words if the rifling was dremeled to cause say Hornady .500 NE loads to group better, if Norma, Kynoch or A- Square ammo were substituted the results would be far less satisfactory. When barrels are properly regulated this sort of variance is not typically experienced."
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All double rifles, all makes, vintage and modern, are (were) regulated by the gun makers with a specific brand of ammunition, using a specific given bullet weight. A rifle, when made, is regulated for specific ammunition; later ammunition is not regulated for a rifle, though sometimes different ammunition is tried, to see how a given rifle will handle that ammunition. A double rifle, when made, uses one or two regulation wedges, to slightly bend the barrels, so that both barrels are "regulated" to shoot left/right bullets PARALLEL; the wedges are soldered in place at that point. Eventually, the top and bottom ribs are also soldered in place. A properly regulated double rifle will always shoot left/right shots parallel; they will never cross fire at any range. For big bore rifles, this means that they will shoot parallel left/right with a spread of about 3 inches or less (that is the standard). Therefor,if a double rifle is regulated at 50 yards (common range for big bores), or at say 75 yards (common on medium bores), that simply means thatis the range where the checking took place; it certainly does not mean, as some guys think, that the right/left shots cross at that range. A major factor in this regulation process, in using one specific brand of ammunition, is the bullet profile, because if a double is initially regulated with bullets of a specific profile, and later on a different brand of ammunition is tried, and they have a different bullet profile, often they will not regulate well. Bullet weight, of course, is important too, so if a rifle is regulated with 480 grain bullets, the rifle may or may not regulate well with bullets of a somewhat different weight---the more distance there is between the weight of original regulation bullet weight and another bullet weight, the less likely it is that it will regulate well in that given rifle. The statement "When barrels are properly regulated this sort of variance is not typically experienced." This statement is not exactly true. Again, factors causing variation in regulation results would include bullet profile, bullet weight, bullet velocity; if one or more of these were not identical to original ones used during regulation, variation in results will be seen. However, each rifle is different from all other rifles of same caliber/make; some will more readily "accept" variations in these factors, and shoot well, while some rifles will not. Again, a double rifle is regulated for a specific load; that is the load that needs to be used for the rest of the life of that rifle, for best regulation. Trying different loads, different bullet profiles, different bullet weights, different velocities, WITHIN REASON, SO THAT NORMAL BREECH PRESSURE FOR THAT RIFLE ISN'T EXCEEDED, may or may not shoot reasonably well.
When a double rifle is regulated correctly, it will retain that regulation for the normal life of the rifle; will not change, unless for some reason, the regulation wedge solder joints fail for some reason. I have many vintage double rifles in my collection, that are 100 years old and older, that are still regulated well, same as they were when made.
When Sabatti found that, after normal regulation, some of their rifles were not shooting within reasonable regulation standards, one or more regulators at Sabatti chose a shortcut method, to not unsolder the wedge, but, instead, to file or grind out some of the rifling at the muzzles, to, thereby, "steer" the bullets slightly one way or another, bringing such a rifle more into regulation. At one point, I saw a video where one of the owners of Sabatti, claimed that they were under a lot of pressure to fill very large orders for double rifles; they hired more production workers; some of the regulators were doing this muzzle grinding to rush them through to completion, without management aware of it, until it was too late, and they were shipped out. Sabatti said that they had corrected that problem by hiring more responsible regulators. Anyway, this is a horrid way to go about double rifle regulation; never done by anyone with an ounce of good sense; is never done by well trained, well experienced double rifle regulators. I think that Sabatti, dealing with huge orders that came to them quickly, were overwhelmed, resorted to hiring irresponsible people who took shortcuts, and we saw the results. Sabatti, it seems, now regrets that, but it is too late.

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* Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CHAPUISARMES 15/06/11 02:14 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets sdesan4378   28/01/18 02:15 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 3DogMike   28/01/18 03:29 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets BwanaBob   24/08/14 08:28 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   25/08/14 08:59 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Big_Bore   27/08/14 01:33 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets bigdog   08/11/14 04:45 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   21/05/13 08:10 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   06/12/13 01:11 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   06/12/13 06:53 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   06/12/13 05:46 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   06/12/13 07:29 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets BB416   06/12/13 08:19 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   06/12/13 08:24 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets BB416   06/12/13 08:44 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   06/12/13 08:54 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   06/12/13 08:36 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets BB416   06/12/13 08:55 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets BB416   06/12/13 08:59 PM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets BB416   12/12/13 12:02 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets joelblack   25/12/13 05:51 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   21/05/13 08:16 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Ckhobart   05/12/13 07:25 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   05/12/13 07:40 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets AkMike   05/12/13 07:58 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   15/06/11 07:58 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets aromakr   16/06/11 04:09 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets jcs271   16/06/11 06:44 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Alberta   16/06/11 07:35 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CHAPUISARMES   16/06/11 02:29 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   16/06/11 06:18 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   16/06/11 06:30 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CHAPUISARMES   16/06/11 07:00 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets FATBOY404   16/06/11 07:11 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CHAPUISARMES   16/06/11 07:42 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   16/06/11 08:03 PM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets *DELETED* 500Nitro   16/06/11 08:05 PM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Ron_Vella   16/06/11 11:32 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   17/06/11 06:20 AM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets *DELETED* FATBOY404   17/06/11 07:57 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets *DELETED* *DELETED* FATBOY404   17/06/11 12:46 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Mike_Bailey   17/06/11 05:39 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets hunter_angler   18/06/11 12:38 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   27/12/13 06:02 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CHAPUISARMES   18/06/11 11:45 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Lilguy   23/06/11 04:43 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CptCurlAdministrator   23/06/11 04:54 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets bwanabobftw   23/06/11 06:37 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Lilguy   23/06/11 09:24 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   28/06/11 04:04 AM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Lilguy   24/06/11 03:03 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets mehulkamdar   28/06/11 03:54 AM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Lilguy   28/06/11 10:57 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CHAPUISARMES   30/06/11 10:45 AM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets nitro450exp   28/07/11 01:09 AM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets davidindallas   06/12/11 05:14 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   27/12/13 06:36 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   27/12/13 07:12 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Ash   03/04/14 07:07 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NONAGONAGIN   04/04/14 02:18 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   10/04/14 01:51 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets gryphon   10/05/16 05:14 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   10/05/16 07:02 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Powertrip   11/05/16 04:30 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets BB416   11/04/14 10:33 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   04/04/14 05:57 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NONAGONAGIN   04/04/14 07:15 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Sarg   04/04/14 08:24 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NONAGONAGIN   04/04/14 11:50 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Ash   11/04/14 09:46 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   04/04/14 06:53 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets hunter_angler   04/04/14 05:42 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets aromakr   27/12/13 11:01 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   28/12/13 06:11 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets FuzzBazz   03/04/14 03:35 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Big_Bore   14/04/14 08:36 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets xrayoneone   12/07/14 10:50 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets FuzzBazz   03/04/14 03:37 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   03/04/14 03:54 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets FuzzBazz   03/04/14 04:14 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Mauser416   24/08/12 06:15 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets aromakr   24/08/12 08:58 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Mauser416   24/08/12 10:55 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets aromakr   24/08/12 02:04 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Mauser416   24/08/12 10:17 PM
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. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets bwananelson   25/08/12 12:07 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   20/04/13 01:12 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets ExcessExpress   20/04/13 07:36 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets doubleriflejack   05/12/13 07:39 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets aromakr   21/04/13 12:46 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets MotelAlpha   21/04/13 12:58 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets ExcessExpress   21/04/13 06:15 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets kamilaroi   20/04/13 02:11 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   20/04/13 05:29 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets bwananelson   24/08/12 10:14 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets Alberta   30/06/11 10:41 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   23/06/11 04:50 AM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets CHAPUISARMES   18/06/11 12:16 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   18/06/11 05:07 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets 500Nitro   18/06/11 06:28 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets NitroXAdministrator   18/06/11 06:54 PM
. * * Re: Sabatti Double Rifles, Brickbats & Bouquets kamilaroi   18/06/11 08:01 PM

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