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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle
      07/03/13 05:19 AM

I posted this before and had to delete it because for some reason the word program I was using scattered the sentences so badly that it was very hard to read. I’ll try it again and see if it will work better this time!

Someone above stated that four rounds can be fired in under 10 seconds and that is true, but 10 seconds for four shots from a double rifle is very slow. And in a real determined charge of a cape buffalo starting from about 25 yds is likely to get someone hurt or killed.

This debate about speed of AIMED shots on target from 25 yds to muzzles in a charge has been around as long as bolt and doubles have been used for stopping dangerous game animals. Nothing I will say here will change the minds of those who believe the way they do.

The PH licensing departments of several southern African countries have found that the double rifle shooter is at no disadvantage to a man with a bolt rifle for four shots as to time, and accuracy. They thought there was a disadvantage so they decided to have the bolt rifle guys load one in the magazine, and one in the chamber for timing a charge stopping target. They found the double was faster and in most cases more accurate on the target.

SO! They decided to let the bolt guys load one in the chamber, and three down, and the double rifles guys load both barrels, with a re-load in the middle for shots three and four. They found that even then the double was faster and more accurate on the target for four shots. The found the first two shots were much faster, and more accurate in timed shooting, and with the over all sequence of the four shots, shot three was about equal in time with the bolt rifle, but shots one two and four was way ahead of the bolt.

Because of this debate, and the findings of the PH school’s findings we at DRSS decided to do a simulated charge stopping competition with many shooters who have done a lot of shooting on big game in Africa and Alaska.

The set-up was 10 shooters shooting at a time, with 20 shooters total, each being individually timed with a digital stop watches. Timing starts when the shooter fires his first shot, and stops when he fires the last of four shots. The rifles are loaded with one in the chamber, and three down in the bolt rifles, and both chambers loaded in the doubles, with a re-load for shots three and four.

The 8 inch black target with a 2 inch white 10 ring center were set up at 25 yds. The possible total score was 40 points if all four hit the 2 inch 10 ring. Any shot that missed the 8 inch black was not counted though a shot close to that black would still be in the kill zone on a buffalo.

The findings were that the bolt rifle was generally slower and less accurate for speed shooting of four shots. The ones that came close with a bolt rifle, lost because one or more of their shots missed the black, and were still slower than most of the double rifle shooters.

When the shooting was over the targets were checked, and the times were listed by the timer on each shooter’s target. I can’t say what the times were for the two shooters who beat me, but my four shots tallied 36, of a possible 40 points and the four shots were fired in four seconds flat! The time could have been faster if I had not forgotten that the double I was shooting had an auto safety that re-sets when the rifle is opened for the re-load of three and four shots. I tried to fire shot three with the safety on, and had to release the safety and pull the trigger again for the third shot! If not for that safety, my time may have shaved off another second, and if I had been trying to stop a lion or Buffalo that extra second could have cost me my life. That rifle had selective ejectors, but my 470NE Merkel has a manual safety, and extractors with a little more recoil that the 9.3X74R Merkel, but weighs 3 pounds more, and I can get four shot off with that rifle just over four seconds all on target.

When I mentioned this safety issue in a report of on the Merkel rifle on the Accurate Reloading forum I was taken to task for not having removed the auto feature of the safety that I had owned for almost ten years, by one of your mates here on Nitro Express, (4seventy here, and 5seventy on AR).

This was because I have always recommended to others a manual safety or to disengage the auto feature on any double rifle used on dangerous game. 4seventy was right, I should have modified it. In fact I still see no need for an auto safety on any rifle but especially one used for dangerous game. Bolt rifles are not fitted with auto safeties so that it re-sets every time the bolt is worked, so why should it be fitted on a double rifle so it re-sets when the rifle is opened for any reason? It is my belief, re-enforced by my experience with the auto safety in the hot competition that a manual safety is a better way.

That being said, I did not remove the auto feature of the safety on that rifle, though I had always recommended it to others. Procrastination is my only excuse for not modifying the safety on this rifle. Because this was not my primary dangerous game double, I simply didn’t change the safety. That was my bad, please do not make the same mistake with a lion or buffalo closing fast on you to do you harm!

This post will not change the minds of most because a strong belief is a hard thing for one to dismiss. However it may make some think about the fact that their belief may be flawed before it gets tested by a bite&stomp!





--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Subject Posted by Posted on
* Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator 17/08/12 03:10 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle DvK   09/09/12 01:31 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle bonanza   17/08/12 04:34 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle 500grains   17/08/12 04:43 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle gryphon   17/08/12 06:07 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle HuntingSchneider   17/08/12 09:46 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Tom30887   17/08/12 05:07 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle bonanza   17/08/12 09:22 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle eagle27   17/08/12 05:46 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator   18/08/12 03:46 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle grantc   25/08/12 06:59 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle eagle27   19/08/12 12:48 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle DUGABOY1   29/09/12 11:19 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Crusader68   18/10/12 08:01 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Pab   18/10/12 11:56 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Mike_Bailey   18/10/12 07:11 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle xausa   18/10/12 11:04 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Matt_Graham   01/09/12 12:19 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Daman   23/04/13 02:35 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle eagle27   01/09/12 03:43 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator   19/08/12 04:52 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle eagle27   19/08/12 07:36 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator   19/08/12 11:41 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle eagle27   20/08/12 08:02 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle tinker   20/08/12 08:39 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Ripp   27/08/12 04:26 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle xausa   01/09/12 09:26 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Rule303   01/09/12 09:43 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle tophet1   19/10/12 08:46 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator   28/02/13 08:53 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle 500Nitro   28/02/13 10:27 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle brosteve   02/03/13 02:19 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Claydog   02/03/13 04:23 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Daman   23/04/13 02:43 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle ozhunter   19/10/12 05:17 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Mike_Bailey   19/10/12 06:41 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle xausa   02/09/12 02:20 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Mike_Bailey   02/09/12 06:49 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Ash   03/09/12 07:02 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Mike_Bailey   03/09/12 08:45 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Mike_Bailey   27/08/12 04:56 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator   27/08/12 11:24 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Dave_Hall   31/08/12 12:12 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle 500grains   01/09/12 12:22 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle 93mouse   01/09/12 01:30 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Mike_Bailey   31/08/12 06:02 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle DUGABOY1   07/03/13 05:19 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Morten   07/03/13 07:51 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Alaskaman11   08/03/13 01:28 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle brosteve   28/02/13 03:01 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator   28/02/13 08:50 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle cooch   08/09/12 10:12 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle eagle27   08/09/12 01:37 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle cooch   08/09/12 01:55 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle NitroXAdministrator   08/09/12 03:10 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle gryphon   27/08/12 06:42 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Buchsemann   20/08/12 01:41 AM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle Ben   18/08/12 04:25 PM
. * * Re: Ivan Carter - Double Rifle vs Bolt Action Rifle gryphon   17/08/12 05:30 PM

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