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Reged: 26/11/03
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Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks
      18/12/04 05:07 PM

Cpt Curl:

Fantastic rifle, Cap. I've always admired the Woodward Automatic and that one is beautiful. The photo of the proof marks and the caption are enlightening.

One of the things I've really enjoyed about owning British double rifles is the study of their proof marks. They are very useful in rough dating a gun. The serial number of the piece is certainly correct for the 1886-1891 period. Please don't hate me for this, but, the barrels are not original to the gun, having been replaced (by the maker as they are marked J.W.&S.) between 1925 and 1955. The Nitro version of the .450/.400 3.25" was not available yet in 1891.

The proof marks are badly out of period. In 1904, new rules of proof were promulgated, primarily to deal with the changes due to the advent of smokeless propellants. The new Nitro Proof mark - the arm dexter in armour embowed holding a scimitar over the letters "NP" - was introduced at this time. This mark, present on your gun, had not yet been designed in 1891.

New rules of proof were again adopted in 1925, these being, primarily, technical corrections to the rules of 1904. Under the rules of 1904, the proof marks of cartridges of the same bore but of different case lengths (such as 450/400 3" NE and 450/400 3.25 " NE) were identical. To remove this confustion, the chamber length mark (3.25", also present on your gun) was added at this time.

Since both of these marks are present, this rifle passed through the London Proof House, for the second time, sometime after 1925 - with a new set of barrels. Note that when an existing set of barrels are submitted for re-proof, they are stamped with the crown over "R" reproof mark and the new proof marks are stamped right alongside the old which are not removed or defaced. In other words, two full sets of proof marks, plus the re-proof mark, would be present. There is only the one set here, thus, this is the second set of barrels. The pressure mark (Cordite 60, 400 MAX) was superceded with the proof rules of 1954, effective date February 1, 1955. The proof marks on the flats are exactly correct for the 1925 - 1955 period.

I imagine this is disappointing as the caption makes clear that you believed the rifle to be entirely original. Did the seller represent it as such? E-mail these pictures to Purdey's (they have the records). They will be able to confirm the above.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Edited by NitroX (22/12/04 03:00 PM)

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator 18/12/04 02:30 PM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   30/12/04 02:47 PM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks NitroXAdministrator   30/12/04 03:26 PM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks mehulkamdar   24/12/04 04:47 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   24/12/04 05:34 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Morten   24/12/04 07:49 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   24/12/04 08:09 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Morten   24/12/04 08:24 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks mehulkamdar   25/12/04 11:08 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Morten   28/12/04 12:06 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks mehulkamdar   29/12/04 05:53 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 4seventy   25/12/04 01:16 PM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks mehulkamdar   26/12/04 07:15 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 4seventy   26/12/04 09:36 AM
. * * Re: Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks mehulkamdar   29/12/04 05:50 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 470Rigby   19/12/04 12:13 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 400NitroExpress   18/12/04 05:07 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   17/12/07 12:57 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Anonymous   17/12/07 01:02 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   17/12/07 10:20 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   17/12/07 10:26 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks NE450No2   17/12/07 10:56 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks cadet   19/12/07 02:25 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   19/12/07 10:33 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Nakihunter   17/12/07 02:05 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   17/12/07 09:56 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Rusty   19/12/04 06:41 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   19/12/04 02:33 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Rusty   20/12/04 12:48 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   21/12/04 10:36 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks NitroXAdministrator   22/12/04 03:46 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 400NitroExpress   21/12/04 03:50 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 470Rigby   19/12/04 05:51 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 400NitroExpress   19/12/04 04:28 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   22/12/04 03:05 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 470Rigby   23/12/04 02:38 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   23/12/04 03:54 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   23/12/04 03:45 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 470Rigby   23/12/04 05:19 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Velopex   30/12/04 07:36 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   31/12/04 09:31 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   04/01/05 02:03 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 470Rigby   04/01/05 03:44 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   05/01/05 12:20 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks NE450No2   05/02/05 02:43 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   06/02/05 12:18 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   06/02/05 01:14 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 470Rigby   06/01/05 12:09 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   06/01/05 01:06 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks NitroXAdministrator   01/02/05 05:54 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   01/02/05 11:16 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks Morten   31/12/04 06:29 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   24/12/04 01:40 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks webley   22/12/04 07:31 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   23/12/04 12:13 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 400NitroExpress   23/12/04 03:55 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks CptCurlAdministrator   23/12/04 06:59 AM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks NE450No2   22/12/04 05:51 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 4seventy   19/12/04 02:45 PM
. * * Re:Woodward .450/400 3.25" & British proof marks 4seventy   18/12/04 03:04 PM

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