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Gatsby,

I've tried to back out of this conversation as it just doesn't seem to be going anywhere positive but I want to make one last attempt. First let me say, from reading many of your posts on other threads here, I think you personally are a fine individual. My opinion may not interest you at this point, but I want to make that clear.

I do think you are missing the salient point here however. You and I may disagree over when the video was filmed, but that is also not the issue. I don't have a problem with the South African Lion Hunting per se as I do believe it is a personal choice regarding ethics.

Where I have a problem is that many, if not most, SA Lion outfitters deceive hunters who are novices at African hunting into believing they are doing something that they are not (ie hunting a wild lion). Many of these novice hunters don't even realize that the animals they are pursuing are captive bred and raised. They often have been led to believe that the lion was bred in captivity, similar to the AI deer herds in Texas, then turned loose at an early age and have been fending for themselves all their life within the pen. They are unaware that many of the animals shot are done so while still under the influence of the drugs necessary to tranquilize them for loading on the truck to be released into the "hunting area". The cats are most often found within a few yards of where they were dropped off.

This deception is one of the main problems I have with this episode. Then, with a bit of a line fed to the hunter, he makes up a story to tell his friends of how brave he was in facing down the problem animal that had to be shot under any and all circumstances. I've heard it soooo toooo many times! I can't count the number of times I've heard a guy say he had to shoot the animal because it was charging them in the truck when if fact, it was running to the truck in anticipation of being offered a couple of live chickens.

Hearing your buddy say that "Obviously, we had to shoot" is just the same old story. To fail to acknowledge it is to show a lack of knowledge of how these "hunts" are conducted. That is the ethical issue I have with this video as I have been around captive bred lions and I've been around wild lions and there is absolutely NO indication in this video of the "need" to shot the lion.

So that brings us to the next issue. If there was no "need" to shoot the lioness, there was a desire to shoot it, after all, it was a "Lion Hunt". Ok, that's fine. No problem. But there are laws as to how these hunts are to be conducted. Let's look at this logically and work thru the issue:

In countries where wild lion exists, even if one would sit for you to drive the truck up close, it is ILLEGAL to shoot from the truck. In ALL instances, unless it were a self defense issue.

In South Africa, where this obviously took place, it is legal to shoot from the truck. But it is ILLEGAL to shoot large predators as defined by TOPS regulations, from a truck, unless it were a self defense issue. The lioness was not threatening the truck prior to the first shot, therefore there is no self defense issue here. What we have is a South African PH / Lion Operator who encouraged your friend to shoot from the truck, probably because he was scared to approach on foot. Then he fed him a line or two about how he knew the cat was about to charge so "we obviously had to shoot" in order to justify shooting from the truck, which is ILLEGAL. Your buddy took that and ran with the story so that he could tell his friends. Anyone with experience hunting African dangerous game, outside of the Republic of South Africa, will recognize this in short order.

So, from the logic standpoint that there was no self defense requirement to shoot at this place and time, and that since it is ILLEGAL to shoot from the truck except in the case of self defense, I am less interested in the type of weapon and or ammo used than I am in the circumstances under which it was used, which to anyone with a little experience of hunting dangerous game on the African continent, can clearly see was done outside the requirements of the law.

So now the main point. In this case, the deception which is so common in the South African Lion Hunting Industry, of convincing the novice hunter that his life is in danger or that he is shooting a problem animal that has to be killed at all costs, in an attempt to get him to feel justified in shooting a canned cat, has now led your friend to unwittingly shoot a cat in violation of the law. Have you questioned your friend about any of the issues brought up on this forum? Have you asked him, "what behavior led you to believe that you HAD to shoot at that moment?", "why did the truck not just drive away and the hunting party approach the cat on foot?", "Was it because you attempted to drive away several times only to have the lioness run along side the truck, with each time you stopped, the cat approached and laid down as if expecting to be fed?", "what were you told about the conduct of the hunt prior to getting into the truck that day?", "what were you told the hunt conditions were prior to booking the hunt?", "did you ride in the truck for a couple of hours prior to 'sighting' the cat's tracks, just before the cat itself appeared from the brush only to have the PH tell you the cat looks disturbed and we need to be extremely careful here?", etc. I could go on for days here.

I'm not having an issue with your buddy per se as much as the outfitter who set him up and put him in this position.

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