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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Ruger No 1 303
      17/08/11 11:45 PM

Well, here you go;

Major EGB Reynolds includes original spec drawings, etc in his great book on the Lee-Enfield rifle.

"Enfield" .303 dimensions as introduced:

Bore; .303
Groove; .0065 {each}
Total Groove depth; .316

After 1896 and starting with the Mark 1 Carbine, "Enfield" .303 dimensions;

Groove; .005
Total Groove depth; .313

Later, w/ the introduction of the SMLE MKI, dimensions get even cloudier, w/;

Groove at breech; .005 deep
Groove at muzzle; .0065 deep

Now, to be precise, this is spec fo the 5-groove Enfield rifling form with offset lands/grooves. So it applies forces to the bullet differently than does even-grooved 4- or 6-groove rifling forms. But regardless, and as demonstrated with many service rifles, the supposed ".312" groove depth is not the "standard" many believe it to be. Also, remember, other rifling forms were used at various times during Lee production; 4, 6, and even 2 groove barrels being produced in the many thousands each.

See the discussion {p.77} on worn barrels, too... w/ scrap spec being based on BORE wear as it should be.

Now, jump to p.92 and we find;

"1. Bullets made to the high diameter {.312} gave better results than those made to the low limit {.310}.
2. Barrels made to the low limit of BORE diameter shot better than those to the high diameter limit."

Emphasis on BORE, mine.

And............................

On page 93-94, we see. Hold on to your hats;

"When deciding on the manufacturing tolerances of the Short rifle, the bore tolerance laid down was similar to that for the Long rifle, i.e. z.02 in. The breech could be .3025 in. to .3045 in., and the muzzle .304 in. to .306 in. It was this coimbination that was considered to be the cause of bad shooting. Recovered bullets showed that they had not expanded in the grooves beyond .3155 in. The groove toleration at the muzzle was .3155 accepting and .3205 rejecting. With this large diameter the bullet was loose in the grooves. It was considered that this would not have been harmful if the LANDS had supported the bullet, but they did not do so when the breech was to the low diameter and the muzzle to the high."

LANDS emphasis, mine.

Goes on and on, and but you fellows who are unhappy with .315 groove barrels might look elsewhere for the cause of bad shooting in your rifles.

Check lands {BORE}, and by all means stocking up.

Reynolds had more experience with the Lee .303's than all of us combined. And I'm almost embarassed to say my experience at short and longer ranges shooting the .303's absolutely confirms what he says. Mine is nothing compared to his, but I cannot argue with him.

If I was Ruger, I'd refuse to rebarrel a .315 barrel. It is w/in spec by any standard of .303 production history, and falls outside only as a dimension for custom barrels.

Again, my No4MkI* Canucks regularly placed 5 shots inside 6 inches at 429 yards on the ranch range here in "normal" weather conditions. They more or less one-holed similar groups at 100. These guns sported .315 barrels and we were shooting various surplus and handloaded ammunition. Don't blame ".315 Groove" barrels for troublesome shooting. Ain't so.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (18/08/11 12:03 AM)

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Subject Posted by Posted on
* Ruger No 1 303 underlever 29/10/10 06:14 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   08/11/10 10:30 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 baileybradshaw   09/11/10 12:14 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 hunter_angler   09/11/10 04:09 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CWJ1898   21/11/10 01:15 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rockdoc   21/11/10 02:23 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Ben   21/11/10 02:55 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rockdoc   21/11/10 05:50 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   26/01/11 06:28 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Con   27/01/11 10:10 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Oldbrit   16/05/11 09:42 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 portdivers   16/05/11 11:44 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   17/05/11 07:11 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 AdamTayler   18/05/11 11:34 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 bwanabobftw   18/05/11 12:21 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   18/05/11 12:35 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 AdamTayler   20/05/11 12:01 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   30/06/11 06:53 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Nyati404   22/07/11 11:40 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 underlever   17/08/11 08:58 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   17/08/11 09:15 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   17/08/11 11:08 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   17/08/11 11:45 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   18/08/11 08:12 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   18/08/11 10:49 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   20/08/11 07:09 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   20/08/11 10:44 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   20/08/11 11:03 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 HuviusModerator   21/08/11 12:23 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   21/08/11 09:04 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   21/08/11 12:32 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 underlever   21/08/11 09:53 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   24/08/11 11:04 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   26/08/11 09:13 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   26/08/11 10:57 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   28/08/11 07:15 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   28/08/11 11:09 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   01/09/11 08:47 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   28/10/11 07:43 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   29/10/11 07:28 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   18/11/11 10:16 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Brithunter   20/11/11 02:54 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   20/11/11 03:17 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   20/11/11 10:08 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   21/11/11 07:02 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   25/11/11 01:04 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Brithunter   25/11/11 01:26 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   26/11/11 05:23 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 wjw   26/11/11 10:09 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Phillip   24/01/12 10:32 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Brithunter   21/11/11 10:44 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Brithunter   08/11/11 01:17 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   08/11/11 03:13 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 TilleyMan   09/11/11 10:18 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 tophet1   09/11/11 10:42 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   09/11/11 04:22 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Brithunter   21/11/11 10:59 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 bonanza   09/11/11 11:03 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   10/11/11 02:31 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 TilleyMan   13/11/11 01:41 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Phillip   13/11/11 11:16 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   14/11/11 03:44 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 TilleyMan   14/11/11 08:25 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   15/11/11 03:46 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 TilleyMan   03/09/11 05:06 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   03/09/11 06:16 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   20/10/11 07:00 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   21/10/11 02:20 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 TilleyMan   21/10/11 01:06 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   22/10/11 02:17 AM
. * * Ruger No 1 303 ,now London proof Mike_Bailey   01/09/11 10:57 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 ,now London proof 450   03/09/11 03:50 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   25/08/11 12:42 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 kuduae   25/08/11 05:12 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   25/08/11 05:39 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 HuntingSchneider   25/08/11 02:36 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   26/08/11 02:08 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Classic416   21/08/11 10:28 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   24/08/11 01:48 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   23/08/11 06:44 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   18/08/11 11:18 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   19/08/11 12:37 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   19/08/11 02:58 AM
. * * Well I just bought one..... crusty   19/08/11 11:53 AM
. * * Re: Lee-Enfield .303 Accuracy Standards 9.3x57   19/08/11 10:56 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   17/08/11 11:53 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   18/08/11 01:16 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   18/08/11 02:18 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   18/08/11 03:39 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   31/08/11 09:20 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 radin   24/08/11 09:42 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Mike_Bailey   18/08/11 04:13 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 belgmart   24/08/11 04:27 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   24/08/11 09:25 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   18/08/11 06:00 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   18/08/11 06:35 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 9.3x57   18/08/11 07:59 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   18/08/11 10:02 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 tophet1   18/08/11 07:43 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   18/08/11 01:09 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 bonanza   15/07/11 11:10 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   16/07/11 10:48 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 bonanza   16/07/11 11:36 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   17/07/11 12:23 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 xausa   17/07/11 01:41 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   17/07/11 02:28 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 DarylS   17/07/11 03:22 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Ben   16/07/11 11:35 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CHAPUISARMES   30/06/11 07:02 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   01/07/11 05:57 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CHAPUISARMES   01/07/11 06:37 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 450   15/07/11 07:05 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Ben   15/07/11 07:18 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   18/05/11 08:56 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Rule303   15/07/11 10:58 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 CptCurlAdministrator   16/07/11 10:41 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Ben   17/05/11 07:31 AM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 eagle27   21/11/10 03:45 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Ben   29/10/10 07:32 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 underlever   31/10/10 09:56 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 bonanza   31/10/10 11:30 PM
. * * Re: Ruger No 1 303 Ben   31/10/10 10:44 PM

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