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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

jc5
.300 member


Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: Bell's Mannlicher
      01/12/10 04:10 AM

Where do you come by this info that Bell got his .303 rifles from Jeffery?

Before WWI, Bell had used a Lee Metford (see "Bell of Africa, p.18). He doesn't say whether this was in a sporter or a military configuration. After the war, Bell returned to Africa with a pair of .303 Lee Enfield rifles. I think the following excerpt from page 29 of "Bell of Africa" shows pretty clearly that Bell's Lee Enfield rifles were sporters:

...
"My war experience had taught me that the British .303 Lee Enfield rifle was a useful weapon, and I thought that, used with the 215 grain solid jacketed bullet, it would serve me well. I successfully resisted the blandishments of the famous gunmakers with their wonderful illustrated catalogues showing the effect on big game of their marvellous wares. For my first real venture I backed my opinion that it was more where you placed the bullet than that bullet's particular striking energy, muzzle velocity, or anything else. So I acquired two sporting models of the .303, each with the ten-shot magazine. In fact they were the military arm with the barrel cut down a bit, and sporting pistol grip stocks. They cost £8 each."
...

I wouldn't infer from Bell's statement that they were simply cut-down military models. Bell wasn't concerned with proof marks and broad arrow stamps. He wouldn't pay much attention to whether the butt socket was marked with a crown and date, or just "BSA Co." I think Bell was simply trying to explain that they were basically the same as the military action. Note that he says "the military arm" (i.e., the pattern), not "ex-service rifles."

I will deal with this topic more fully in the Lee Speed book, but in several years of searching, I have not found any evidence that anyone was doing sporter conversions of ex-military rifles before the mid-1920s. If a civilian owned a Lee Metford or Lee Enfield before WWI, it's almost certain that he either purchased it as a commercial model... or stole it! If Bell's Lee Enfields were indeed ex-service rifles, someone put pistol grips on them, and this just doesn't make any sense from a cost perspective. In my opinion, Bell's Lee Enfields (and his earlier Lee Metford, for that matter) were commercial models made by BSA or LSA. His Lee Enfields were sporters, and his Lee Metford could have been either a sporter or a military pattern.

It is certainly possible they were retailed by Jeffery, but I am eager to learn what the evidence is for this. (I'm not disputing it, I just want to know.)

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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* Bell's Mannlicher CarlsenHighway 29/03/10 09:29 PM
. * * Re: Bell's Mannlicher xausa   30/03/10 06:27 AM
. * * Re: Bell's Mannlicher Mike_Bailey   30/03/10 07:08 AM
. * * Re: Bell's Mannlicher CarlsenHighway   30/03/10 07:29 AM
. * * Re: Bell's Mannlicher xausa   30/03/10 10:52 AM
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. * * Re: Bell's Mannlicher kuduae   01/12/10 10:34 AM
. * * Re: Bell's Mannlicher CarlsenHighway   28/11/10 10:40 AM
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