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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.
10/10/10 09:58 AM

To find out about the "problems" of the 6.5 Mannlicher, both 6.5x53R Mannlicher and the rimless 6.5x54 M-Sch, we have to go back to the early 1890s ballistic habits. At that time European cartridge designers still thought along the lines of black powder and lead bullets.
As the early small bore bullets were rather thin-jacketed and -by today's standards- long and heavy for the caliber, and the early smokeless powders were fast burning, designers tended to use slightly undersize bullets and relied on the "slugging up" of the bullets on the sudden blow of pressure to fill the grooves. FI, this idea worked with the original 8x57 227gr .318" bullet to fill the .324" grooves, but not with lighter and stronger bullets. This lead to the confusion with .318" and .324" 8mm bullets.
The designer of the 6.5mm Mannlicher cartridges followed the same path of relying on "slugging up". On this forum you often read complains on the "outsize" groove diameter of Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5 mm barrels. If you take a look into the European CIP proof tables, you will find a minimum groove diameter of 6.78mm = surprise! .2669", the minimum bore diameter is 6.48mm = .255", so the minimum barrel diameters are both .03mm = .0012" wider than prescribed for the other 6.5mm cartridges like 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 6.5x68.
The maximum bullet diameter is the same for these "6.5mm" cartridges, 6.70mm = .264".
For the sake of "science" I have torn apart some original cartridges and miked the bullets:
Hornady 160gr round nose: .264"
1928 Portuguese military 158gr fmj/solid round nose: .263"
RWS, both pre- and post-WW2 make, 159gr TMR/round nose soft point: .261"!
RWS 159gr prewar H-jacketed boat-tail hollow-point .261" also.
Apparently most Mannlicher-Schoenauers did not shoot too bad with these "grossly undersized" bullets. So I dare to recommend for old M-Sch rifles:
do not try light bullets below 140gr
do not try hard bullets like Noslers or even homogenous bullets.
As M1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer magazines, other than the post-war models, guide the cartridges at the base and at the bullet tip, feeding is most reliable with round noses seated to maximum cartridge length.

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Subject	Posted by	Posted on
6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	lawndart	02/02/10 11:01 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	9.3x57	02/02/10 01:23 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	malco	11/02/10 01:24 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	tophet1	11/02/10 08:39 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	GG375	17/02/10 08:00 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	pablo_mauser_66	18/02/10 09:57 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	GG375	18/02/10 05:29 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	pablo_mauser_66	22/02/10 04:53 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	lawndart	05/03/10 06:03 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	Otto	27/04/10 10:58 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	Brithunter	27/04/10 11:43 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	Larry	17/05/10 08:31 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	pablo_mauser_66	17/05/10 10:09 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	radin	24/09/10 11:33 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	RigbyUser	10/10/10 01:07 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	DarylS	10/10/10 01:29 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	kuduae	10/10/10 09:58 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	DarylS	28/02/11 01:37 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	NZHunter	17/08/11 04:58 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	eagle27	17/08/11 07:44 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	Mike_Bailey	17/08/11 08:55 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	farshot	20/09/11 03:06 AM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	333_okh	19/12/10 01:14 PM
Re: 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer Bullet Preferences.	gmsemel	27/02/11 08:35 AM

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