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1st of all, we must be careful we don't let opinions and misinformation lead us astray. I prefer fact and experience to be the guidlines I go by.

Much misinformation is available, while much concrete information is also available. Personal opinions about a specific ctg., guided by their 'beliefs' or preferences can not be allowed to guide us on sitability of a particular round for a job to be done. A statement, such as made by dugaboy as to the only practical 'use' of a .45/70 fits this perceived opinion and misinformation perfectly.

I accessed several of my books on 45/70 data and rest assured, as loaded today, it's potential escalates it from it's roots and primary intention of use - that as an anti-personel weapon. Hell, the buffalo hunters of the 1870's through 80's found that out - should be bury our heads in the sand and say it didn't happen?

As loaded today, even if the allowable pressure of 20,000PSI noted by dugaboy was correct (it isn't), this round will still produce 1,700fps with a 400gr. jacketed bullet & generally 100fps higher speeds with a lead bullet of the same weight.

Although 9.3x57's 'Favourite Load" which matched the wonderfully effective .375H&H in test materials and on GAME, was shot in a modern lever gun, does not mean that speed can not be achieved with less pressure and be useable in a peceived 'weaker' action. The load he uses might produce more pressure than the Baikal can handle - I don't know - I seriously doubt it. I do know from experience, that with 'other' powders, that speed can be beated at even lower pressures than he lists as acceptable.

For instance, Hodgdon lists loads for 3 separate 'classes' of rifle, in the .45/70. They start with "Trapdoor Rifles". We can assume they mean original & replica rifles which are restricted to a certain pressure level. Their data runs up to a maximum of 28,000CUP with some pressure stable powders, bit lower, in the 25,000CUP range with most others.

We KNOW that in this particular ctg. case, PSI and CUP are the same numbers, meaning that 28,000CUP is actually the same as 28,000PSI- in this ctg. Some others share this trait, ie: .444 Marlin, .45/90, .458 Win., .44 mag. and .357 mag. Other ctgs. and case shapes do not share this 'trait'.

Hodgdon's Trapdoor Springfield data shows data for 300gr. jacketed bullets loaded to in excess of 2,000fps in 7 different loads, 7 different powders. Their data also shows speeds for 385gr. cast bullets to 1,819fps(25,900CUP) and 405gr. Cast to 1,718fps (20,900CUP). NOTE the speed and pressure!

Lee's data, safe for all .45/70 rifles in GOOD condition, shows 340gr. lead bullet at 1,850fps for a mere 18,000PSI, a 420gr. cast at 1,656fps at 17,700PSI and a 500gr. lead bullet at 1,532fps developing 18,400PSI.

Other data I have, lists .45/70 loads that do not exceed 21,000CUP chronographed in 22" bls. as in:
300gr. Nosler Partition @ 1,870fps, @ 1925fps and 1,908fps with 3 different powders.
350gr. Jacketed @ 1,730fps, 1,711fps and 1,846fps.
400gr. Jacketed @ 1,678fps, 1,744fps, 1,720fps, 1,666fps.
415gr. RCBS Cast @ 1,616fps, 1,616fps, 1,689fps, 1,710fps, 1,748fps, 1,748fps.
These 415gr. loads about dupicate or exceed 9.3's favourite load which does so well compared to the .375, in the baffles and on game - see, experience & concrete data is the best teacher, rather than outright untruthful statements of someones ill-informed beliefs - it is WAY ahead of the .30/06 - in my opinion, of course - the numbers speak for themselves and when coupled with experience, outweigh the aforementioned beliefs and statements.

Now, these are LESS than the pressure levels that hogdon says are OK for trapdoors and of course, are also just fine for the Baikal.
This piddling little 2.1" case as loaded above, actually is ahead of the .45 3-1/4" BPE, which develops another 5,000CUP with just it's black powder factory loads yet only barely achieves these smokeless, lighter pressure .45/70's speeds yet it must use lighter bullets than the .45/70. This old number is far from antiquated. With factory BP laods, the .45/70 developes an impressive 22,000PSI/CUP, as recorded by Accurate Arms and listed in their handloading book. I couldn't lay my hands on either book today, but they also list similar loads - in the 1,800fps range, at the same pressures or less than developed by black powder.

Raising the bar to 28,000CUP adds another 100fps to 200fps only. This is normal with such high expansion ratio ctgs.

My 1.9" .45/60 Sharps, with it's huge 1868 BP-type firing pin, is totally safe with a load of Benchmark producing 1,850fps with the 405gr. RP bullet. This load is producing under 19,000CUP as it is 1gr. above the starting load with that powder @ 17,100CUP. The longer barrel length helps, of course, yet in a short barrel of 22", this load will well produce over 1,600fps. It isno slouch. I suggest everyone interested purchase the Hodgdon Annual Manual - every year as I do. It also has some good articles - worth the price of admission in themselves.

Pick your powders and it's amazing what you can do with this old number. It is not restricted to 1,320fps with a 400gr. lead bullet - not today, it isn't - by a long shot, even though those seemingly weak ballistics kill buffalo dead - dead faster than a premium load in an '06 or .300 mag. THIS I've seen myself.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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