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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

jc5
.300 member


Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration
      29/07/09 04:12 PM

Yes Virgina, there really was a Trade Pattern carbine! No big mystery, though....the BSA catalogues that are currently reproduced by Cornell and also by Skennerton show three models. (There were other variations, but I'm still researching those, so I can't speak authoritatively there without more data).

Basically, the trade patterns were semi-military, I suppose you could say. They were advertised as "Officers Models" and so on. They filled a gap in the service pattern line-up. Remember that unlike the earlier Sniders and Martinis in British service, there never was an artillery pattern Lee Metford/Lee Enfield carbine. There was only the cavalry carbine (introduced in 1895), and it had neither sling swivels nor a bayonet lug. So if the particular needs of your outfit (colonial, cadet, paramilitary, whatever) required such fittings, I suppose you either had to buy from BSA or convince RSAF to make something up special for you. Regarding the former option, there's no record of anyone ever placing a large order with BSA for trade pattern carbs, the way that some governments did with the regular service pattern rifle. In the latter case, (having the Gov't cook something up), that is just what happened with the New Zealand pattern carbine, which resembles the BSA trade pattern fitted with the addition of a handguard. Basically, RSAF Enfield used a combination of converted cavalry carbs and some unused carb receivers and fitted up some 1500 rifles in this new pattern and sent them to NZ. Coggansfield over at the Lee Enfield forums can tell you more about those.

Another such job was the more famous (and much more common) RIC carbine, which was a cavalry carb conversion, with bayonet lug, swivels, and handguard. The fore-end had a somewhat ugly swell at the muzzle end to accommodate the design, and the thinner cavalry barrel required a bushing in order for the P88 bayonet to fit.

All this is well documented by Skennerton. Suffice to say, the lack of an artillery pattern carbine in British service eventually made it necessary to contrive something, and the result was the NZ carb and, later, the RIC carb. However, both of those were made obsolete by the SMLE pretty much as ssoon as they were issued. The BSA trade pattern carb was more likely to be purchased by officers who wanted something a bit fancier. I have one with the markings of a Volunteer unit. I am not an expert on the Volunteer movement by any means, but I understand that many members of these units could afford something a bit higher than your average service pattern standard-issue rifle, and were often willing to spend more. Aside from Volunteers and private purchase, these rifles may have seen service as part of a batch that was purchased by the Admiralty in WWI. Rowdy has one TPC with naval markings, and it might be one of those.

Although the No. 4 pattern is usually listed on the same catalogue page as the TPCs No.1, 2,3, it really is a different beast---it is a low-end sporter, really, and not even pseudo-military. Of course, the No.4s are wonderful rifles, and most owners agree that in fine condition they shoot very well. I love the No.4 sporters, but they are in the "sporting" category and do not straddle the line between military and civilian rifles. If you were really on a budget, you could get one with military sights and shave a few pence off the price!

There SO MANY variations of these Lee Speeds, that one must be careful before dismissing any specimen too quickly as a bitsa. I suspect that there are a great many commercial BSA rifles out there (both sporters and service patterns), that have slipped under the radar and been misidentified as common surplus bubbas and then sold off or hacked up with scope drillings.

Some really are bitsas, though. I have seen some where rather than retire the rifle, the owner has replaced a worn out barrel with one from a surplus rifle, and so on in that vein.

(BTW, Con, your email has not arrived yet).

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

Edited by jc5 (29/07/09 04:13 PM)

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Entire topic
Subject Posted by Posted on
* BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration Con 29/07/09 07:08 AM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration simonsaorsa   29/07/09 07:48 AM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration Con   29/07/09 11:35 AM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration jc5   29/07/09 12:29 PM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration Con   29/07/09 01:34 PM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration jc5   29/07/09 04:12 PM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration Con   29/07/09 04:30 PM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration jc5   29/07/09 05:06 PM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration Con   29/07/09 05:54 PM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration simonsaorsa   06/11/09 09:45 AM
. * * Re: BSA catalogue image for Lee Speed restoration Rowdy   29/07/09 05:54 PM

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