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I cannot read this forum thread without correcting an issue re the 10.75x65R Collath and 10.75x65R Gründig cartridges. These are not the same cartridge.

What you have shown here is the 10.75x65R Gründig. It is one of a scarce series of four similar slightly tapered cartridges of 45, 52, 60 and 65mm case length with a c12.4mm base. All of these were originally produced with an H.Utendoerffer hs.

The 10.75x65R Collath is an extremely rare cartridge that is slightly necked, has a “W.COLLATH FRANKFURT a/O” hs and has a 11.9mm base. It is a necked version of the 11.15x65R Collath/ 11.15x65 “LK” case.

This confusion has arisen from Fred Datig listing a 10.75x65R in his book “Cartridges for Collectors” Volume One (ie the image in this forum) as a Collath when it is actually the Gründig. Since then , Frank Barnes in his “Cartridges of the World” has repeated this error. Even Bertram Bullets made the same mistake when he produced some unformed cases in 1994 with "BB roo 10.75x65R roo" hs and marketed them as the "10.75x65R Collath". However this case with a rim diameter of c12.2mm and rim diameter of 13.8mm is closer to the 10.75x65R Grundig. The error was corrected in the book “European Sporting Cartridges” Volume one (now out of print).

Oleg, regarding your example with no headstamp. I have not seen such a 10.75x65R before and cannot confirm who produced it. It is true that Sellier & Bellot did produce special orders without headstamp – eg 10.75x52R Springer and this maybe another example. However, I don’t think that the Gründig cartridges were that popular outside of Germany so maybe these were more modern by Horneber (they did produce 10.75x52R Gründig cases) or perhaps Bertram ?? Maybe more evidence will answer this question ??

Regarding the "11x65R", I know that both the 11.15x65R LK and 11.15x65R Collath were referred to as "11x65R" by several ammunition companies. I know of no other reference to this calibre but can say that of course "11mm" bullets are typically 11.15mm in diameter.

Edited by WBD (19/02/09 06:43 PM)

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