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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

JPK
.375 member

Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD

Re: 500/416 experience's
24/12/08 02:14 AM

Rem 416 factory quoted velocity = 2400fps. But All I've ever read is that they run 2250fps or so.

If you want an opinion comparing the 416 Rem and the 458wm, you need look no further than Alan Shearing of Charlton McCollum Safaris. Alan moved from a Model 70 in 458wm to a Model 70 in 416 Rem because he had shot out the barrel of his 458wm and it came to the point that it would no longer shoot accurately and needed to be rebarreled.

I had the opportunity to share a camp with him in November and he bemoaned the "loss" of his 458wm, much prefering the 458wm to the 416 Rem.

Allan is a bolt rifle guy, but extending his preference, he made it clear that he prferred 500grs at 2100fps to 400grs at 2250fps. In other words, this elephant hunting PH made it clear, as every PH I have ever spoken to or almost every one who has voiced an opinion, he preferred the big bore to the medium bore. Or almost direct comparisions, he preferred the ballistics of the 450NE or 470 to the ballistics of the 500/416.

Also, with the penetration that I've seen with my 458wm and that of the 470, I'm finding it hard to imagine a shot angle that would provide enough elephant head to not reach the brain. Any angle that I can imagine that might prove an issue for the 450 - 470 class ballistics poses an equal issue for ANY rifle because the only angles that might prove a penetration challenge include the tusks and tusk sockets. And its the ivory and bone that are the issue, not the distance from POI to brain. In other words, the concern is regarding whether any bullet will hold together in thaose densest of dense materials. Of course, more velocity = more concern for bullet integrity too.

As I've said, I am a great fan of enough penetration, but after a point, imo, it is better to trade some "excess" penetration for more bullet diameter and weight.

BTW, and FWIW, the vaunted and legendary penetration of the 375H&H shooting 300gr solids at 2550fps does not equal the penetration of the 458wm shooting 500gr Woodleigh solids at 2145fps. I know this from direct comparisons in elephant heads.

You have sold yourself on the 500/416, that is clear. I hope it proves to deliver just what you are looking for.

Merry Christmas,

JPK

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Subject	Posted by	Posted on
500/416 experience's	Ripp	20/12/08 06:50 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Anonymous	23/12/08 08:09 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	ozhunter	20/12/08 11:48 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Caprivi	20/12/08 01:29 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	22/12/08 03:31 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JabaliHunter	22/12/08 10:51 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	NitroX	23/12/08 11:48 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	23/12/08 11:56 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	NitroX	24/12/08 01:17 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	24/12/08 01:34 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	24/12/08 02:14 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	24/12/08 06:24 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	NitroX	24/12/08 12:25 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	25/12/08 02:02 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	NitroX	25/12/08 02:32 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	26/12/08 01:57 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	26/12/08 04:01 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	28/12/08 07:51 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	28/12/08 02:21 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	28/12/08 10:36 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	29/12/08 01:06 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	30/12/08 12:42 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	30/12/08 02:26 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	30/12/08 03:42 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	30/12/08 06:35 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	30/12/08 01:10 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	30/12/08 04:32 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	30/12/08 05:46 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	31/12/08 01:03 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JabaliHunter	11/01/09 04:16 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	31/12/08 03:37 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	31/12/08 04:47 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Mike_Bailey	31/12/08 01:57 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Paul	30/12/08 08:09 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	31/12/08 07:49 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	31/12/08 08:22 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	93mouse	31/12/08 07:59 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	01/01/09 01:26 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	01/01/09 01:30 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	01/01/09 01:48 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	ant458	11/01/09 02:48 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	30/12/08 01:37 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	30/12/08 01:59 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	29/12/08 01:33 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	30/12/08 12:57 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	30/12/08 01:32 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	29/12/08 02:10 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	29/12/08 02:18 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	29/12/08 02:28 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Paul	29/12/08 04:08 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	29/12/08 06:05 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Paul	29/12/08 08:24 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	30/12/08 01:25 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	25/12/08 04:54 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	25/12/08 02:11 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	25/12/08 04:30 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	24/12/08 02:52 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	25/12/08 12:46 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	25/12/08 01:04 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	25/12/08 02:14 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Anonymous	26/12/08 04:49 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	NitroX	26/12/08 11:54 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	EricD	27/12/08 01:50 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	27/12/08 03:16 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	27/12/08 04:20 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	27/12/08 02:33 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	ozhunter	28/12/08 12:10 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	28/12/08 07:11 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	28/12/08 01:30 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	9.3x57	28/12/08 02:02 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	28/12/08 02:28 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Huvius	28/12/08 04:05 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	28/12/08 02:32 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	30/12/08 12:33 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	GarBy	28/12/08 05:47 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	GarBy	24/12/08 09:50 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	22/12/08 11:43 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	23/12/08 06:07 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	23/12/08 08:29 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Der_Jaeger	23/12/08 07:45 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	bonanza	23/12/08 08:13 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	23/12/08 08:33 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	JPK	23/12/08 10:58 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	24/12/08 12:11 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	22/12/08 07:22 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	mickey	20/12/08 01:34 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	GarBy	21/12/08 04:37 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	22/12/08 07:34 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	GarBy	22/12/08 11:55 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's	Ripp	22/12/08 01:55 PM
Re: 500/416 experience's	mickey	22/12/08 02:29 PM

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