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No the stopping effect will not be that same between the big bores and the 416's unless the brain or spine is hit. Yes the big bores have proven over the last century and more that they are more reliable for stopping elephant charges. Not all elephant charges are stopped by a brain or spine shot, I'd venture that most are stopped with a missed brain shot. And the stopping reliability goes up as calibre, bullet weight and energy go up, as proven repeatedly for more than a century. An opinion shared by Nychens, Taylor, Harlan, Thomson, almost every experienced elephant hunter who has voiced an opinion, even including Ganyana. JPK

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JPK

Think this has gone off on a different direction than I had planned after yesterday's post..I was more so, comparing the .375 vs the .416-as in .416 Remington or Rigby which based on my info and reloads are tooling along at around 2400 to 2450fps..so, ME is around 51 to 5200 ft.lbs..--and yes, per your info..every PH I have talked too, read about, etc.. all state the .416 is decidedly better than the .375 in terms of KO power...this, along with the availability of bullets for the reloader, in my opinion, makes it a better overall gun when one is hunting in a dangerous game area..which is also a critical component of this oveall equation..

As to penetration, based on my experience and what I have read, the .416 traveling at the speeds listed above will, in most cases pentrate as well as even the 458 Lott-- with much less recoil..

Per the article I read by Ganyana and actually in Boddington's new book, SAFARI RIFLES II, as well as 2 PH's I have visited with in Africa on this topic, it is suggestd that some of the Nitro cartridges do not have enough velocity to penetrate the larger bulls skulls from any angle, with the key word there being "any"...

In the article by Ganyana, he stated they had a 500 Nitro 3" with an 18" barrel for "close" work that failed to penetrate on numerous occassions and doubted a 24" barrel would have made much more of a difference..Boddington suggests similar in his book, that several of the older calibers work well in 99% of the situations, but, as you suggested, its the 1% that get ya...

I watched a bull take not one but two, dead on shots into the head with a .577. bull was coming in, head down, while it stopped him, it certainly did not drop him...again, shot placement, imo, is the key, especially on a frontal brain shot..

While I don't have 1/10th the experience you do on elephant,hopefully one day I will, but on the one I did shoot with my .416, tuskless cow in Zim, she was coming in at a slightly quartering angle, shot hit above her right eye and exited behind her left ear..as far as I know, its still going..

As often stated, you want to get a good debate going, start disucssing calibers...personally, I like them all and own most of them including several in .375 H&H's, 416's, and 458's along with one .470 double..personally , when I go back, I am taking the .470 Nitro and .416 Rem..bolt gun..has worked for past 4 trips, figure it will work again...if not, its been a hell of a ride..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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