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The fact is that the actual bullets do the killing.A better bullet acting within the velocity/energy parameters of the cartridge/rifle hunted makes a better mousetrap.

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I'm confused about this "new" bullet technology. In what way are these bullets better?
They certainly don't mushroom better, so it could be argued that in this they are not better.
Unless striking heavy bone, they will pass right through like any solid. Better? No.
Risk of decreased barrel life or damage, real or perceived. A good attribute? No.

So, can anyone with experience shooting these and regular FMJ solids with comparisons in on-game performance give us results outside of the theoretical realm?
How can we accept that tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of one shot kills on dangerous game in the past century were in any way accomplished with "inferior" bullets?

I must confess, I am firmly in the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" camp. For me, this applies to my guns, chamberings, and the ammunition. IMHO, there's not much in the post-war (WW2) hunting world which I would classify as measurable improvement in killing performance. Powders may be just about it...

Back to the topic, can the solid brass bullets be annealed to make them a little softer?

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"So, can anyone with experience shooting these and regular FMJ solids with comparisons in on-game performance give us results outside of the theoretical realm?"

My previous post noting the greater penetration of trucated flat nose solids was based on actual in the field experience on elephants and cape buffalo.

I found that .458" 450gr North Fork truncated cone flat nose mono metal driving band solids at 2190fps outpenetrated 500gr Woodleigh round nose steel jacketed solids at 2145fps by +/- 40% in either body shots or brain shots - and missed brain shots.

Fellow NE member 500 Grains has found similar penetration results, but with less difference in penetration, on order of 10% on body shots, iirc, similar penetration on elephant brain shots.

If you do the math you will find that the North Fork load has less energy, so is it the bullet or the velocity differential? I think it is the bullet, and believe the fact that the flat nose has less energy but yet penetrates significantly more supports my conclusion.

I could not detect any difference in knock down or knock out or impact effect between the bullets when my frontal brain shots were imperfect. The 450's knock elephants down or out in similar fashion to the 500's when I have missed the brain.

Further, recovered bullets show no signs of tumbling, unlike round nose bullets which I believe have a strong tendency to tumble when they have lost the greater portion of their velocity, maybe that is even the only reason for the greater pentration of the flat noses. Evidence of round noses tumbling includes flattened or split bases, bent bullets, out of round bullets.

Greater penetration when elephant hunting is ALWAYS a plus since the attitude of the head and the angle of the shot are known only after the fact. When your twelve or ten or even less yards from the elephant and it turns to you there isn't really much option but to take that shot, there isn't any opportunity to wait until the angle or head attitude is better.

Also, the North Forks I've recovered show no signs of the body of the bullets being engraved, only the thin driving bands, so there is no barrel, bore, solder joint, etc threat. In fact, I believe that the North Fork and similar true driving band bullets are easier on the rifle than steel jacketed solids and by a considerable margin.

So, yes, the flat nose, truncated cone, driving band, mono metal solids are better than round nose steel jacketed solids when each is used at appropriate velocity and weight.

That doesn't make the round noses incapable of doing the job, just second best at doing that job.

JPK
Edited to note that Barnes are niehter truncated cone flat nose solids nor driving band bullets becaue of their round ogive on the first point and the fact that the body or shank of the bullet is engraved "beneath" the bands and because the body or shank of the bullet is engraved where there are no bands.

Edited by JPK (21/09/08 12:56 PM)

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