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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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AussieHunter
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.338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H
      #95768 - 02/02/08 12:06 PM

For the buffalo hunters out there. Which would you prefer out of the .338 Win Mag and the .375 H&H? I have narrowed my choices down to these two and i dont reload YET so the the price of ammo is a problem. I really like the ballistics and cheaper ammo of the .338, but will the .338 take a buffalo down with no problems? I am guessing most of you will like the .375 better because of the larger pills and bit more energy. I am leaning towards the .338. What do you think???

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albertan
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #95770 - 02/02/08 12:54 PM

As a confirmed .338 Winchester fan I must honestly tell you that when the game hits the ton(or tonne) mark the .375 is the way to go. Kinetic energy figures do not tell the whole story. Cross-sectional area and momentum heavily favor the .375.

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szihn
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: albertan]
      #95772 - 02/02/08 01:25 PM

I have owned both and killed game with both
The 375H&H is the better choice. I can see the difference in the effect on animals over 1000 pounds.

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Bramble
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: albertan]
      #95774 - 02/02/08 01:32 PM

.338 is I believe and stand to be corrected, below the minimum legal in most of Africa for Buff. That being .375, the exception being 9.3 x 62. You certainly can kill anything with a .338 as you can with a 7mm but it is not recommended practice.If the shit hits the fan you will be undergunned for stopping a charge. If the cost of ammo is a issue then a .458 win mag would be the logical solution.

Regards

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AussieHunter
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: Bramble]
      #95858 - 03/02/08 07:21 PM

I will only be shooting Australian water buffalo.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #95873 - 04/02/08 01:34 AM

I've never shot an Ozzie buff, but I think that given their size and to cover all eventualities if things should go wrong, I would want a .375. You could consider very heavy bullets in the .338 i.e. 275 grainers. Even then I think you would be better off with the .375 and you can shoot the great Woodleigh 350 grainers too. JMHO

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MarkR
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #95876 - 04/02/08 01:55 AM

AussieHunter,

If the buff trip is a once-off and you have more use for a 338 after the trip, then go for the 338 with 250gr woodleighs, especially if you're hunting with a guide or someone else to back you up. If you want a more buff specific calibre then I would go the 375.

Cheers,
Mark.

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DarylS
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: MarkR]
      #95912 - 04/02/08 07:45 AM

The .338 would be the equivalent of the .375H&H - IF - it shot 300gr. to 350gr. bullets of 3/8" diameter at the same velocities as the old H&H.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AussieHunter
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: MarkR]
      #95941 - 04/02/08 12:55 PM

Quote:

AussieHunter,

If the buff trip is a once-off and you have more use for a 338 after the trip, then go for the 338 with 250gr woodleighs, especially if you're hunting with a guide or someone else to back you up. If you want a more buff specific calibre then I would go the 375.

Cheers,
Mark.



Yes it will be a once off rifle (just to use on safari trips .etc). I should have mentioned before that i will only shoot buff with it on the odd occasion and the rest of the time i will be shooting pigs (and a lot of pigs).

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JabaliHunter
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #95964 - 04/02/08 09:09 PM

In that case I'd probably lean towards the .338 BUT I would definitely use bullets heavier that 250gr. I reckon 275grains as a minimum - you don't need the velocity of the 250gr. The bigger the wallop the better. JMHO
Daryl - who makes 300gr .338 bullets? I'm not aware of any. Thanks

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Marrakai
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #95977 - 04/02/08 11:50 PM

Quote:

who makes 300gr .338 bullets? I'm not aware of any


Check out the Woodleigh list here. Scroll down to Cat.No. 58 (soft-point) and 59 (FMJ).

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DarylS
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #95993 - 05/02/08 03:29 AM

Jabil - you missed my point. In the same line of thinking, the .30/06 would be the equivalence of the .45/70, IF the .30/06 shot .458" bullets at the same speeds the .45/70 does. It can't, so it isn't.
; The .338 would be as good as the .375 IF it shot .375" 300 to 350 gr. bullets at the same speed. It can't, so it isn't.
: Winchester used to make 300gr. factory ammo in .338. Barnes "Old Style" (Colorado Custom) .338's used to be available in 300gr., both .032" and .040" jackets.
; Does not Woodleigh make 300gr. in .338?
; Speer 275gr. .338's used to be the best close and long range bullet for North America hunting of Elk and Moose along with big bears, but are no longer available, apparently. A few guys up here are trying to find some more. One friend has a stash and he's not sharing. He's used the 250 Noslers, found them wanting in comparrison, and prefers the 275's. He rolls a new cannelure for proper seating depth in his rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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JabaliHunter
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: DarylS]
      #96006 - 05/02/08 05:34 AM

Sorry Daryl - I think I'm still missing the point
I was just saying that for an African buff I personally would definitely want a .375 and I would choose the 350grain woodleighs. As AussieHunter wants a rifle for occasional Oz buffalo, then I reckoned that a .338 would be an acceptable compromise if 275grain or heavier bullets were used. I didn't mean to say they were equivalent and I know which I'd prefer if things got nasty......

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DarylS
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #96060 - 06/02/08 05:16 AM

NP- doesn't matter - I know which one I'd choose as well - I'll always reach for the larger bore.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AussieHunter
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: DarylS]
      #96074 - 06/02/08 08:13 AM

Quote:

NP- doesn't matter - I know which one I'd choose as well - I'll always reach for the larger bore.



I know, so would i. BUT i will only be shooting buff with it on the odd occasion. I do not live among the buffalo, this rifle will be used to take on trips to knock over a couple of buffalo then shoot a heap of pigs. Because i dont reload YET i just think the .375 H&H is a bit expensive and not needed to shoot pigs. I just want to know if a good shot out of the .338 to the boiler room of a buff will knock him down?

Edited by AussieHunter (06/02/08 02:29 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #96076 - 06/02/08 08:22 AM

Certainly the .338 is good enough - if the correct fodder is chosen.
; When proper bullets are used, there are a raft of even smaller rounds that will work just fine for that single buff. That's been proven in Africa, time and time again. One must use the proper bullet and shoot accurately.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gator
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: DarylS]
      #96170 - 07/02/08 11:05 AM

You can take down a buffalo with the 338, but the 375 is by far better.

You might concider finding someone to reload for you, which would be cheeper than the factory 338 amo.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: gator]
      #96186 - 07/02/08 02:26 PM

I don't have or use a .338.

The .375 H&H would be a much better cartridge to use on buffalo. It will do virtually everything the .338 will do with normal ammo ie the 225 gr plus weight range. If you wanted one rifle to hunt all big game with wherever you go in Australia or the world the .375 will do it.

I have used mine on cape buffalo, but no water buffalo. I have used the slightly less powerful 9.3x74R on a dozen or so water buffalo so not much difference. If is devastating on pigs and other medium game. It has similar trajectory to a .30-06 so can be used on reasonably longer shots too. Some guys like to use .375 bullets designed for the lever action .375 Winchester on pigs and no doubt these would kill them very well and are cheap cannon fodder. Recoil of a .375 H&H is brisk but is not too bad, especially if one avoids too much bench shooting.

A .338 Win Mag is IMO a great all round medium game rifle. The calibre range of 8mm to .338 I think is ideal as a world trophy rifle for medium game, from goats and pigs, deer, to the larger antelopes, moose etc. For big game I have no doubt with GOOD bullet placement and good well constructed bullets water buffalo can be killed with it. Starting with the 250 gr projectiles and above. Lots of Aussies use .308s etc for water buffalo seeing there is no legal minimum calibre requirement. Personally I do think a bit more grunt is needed than a .308/.30-06 for the occasions when it is needed. But it is not a stopping calibre. It is also not legal for cape buffalo in Africa should you ever want to do that. Recoil would be marginally less than a .375. From my 'armchair' I have always thought a .338 one of the best all round choices for North American hunting. A .338 would also make a handy sambar rifle and brush rifle.

I was only shooting my 9.3mm with 286 gr SPs at about 2170 fps so a .338 might be able to do similar with 270 gr projectiles. However I did pick the shots on water buffalo and scrub bull going for heart shots trying to avoid the shoulder on the way in.

The old .318 Westley Richards was regarded by many old African hunters as a great plains game cartridge and including use on cape buffalo. The .318 was effectively a .338/06, but .330 calibre on a .30-06 sized case shooting usually round nose 250 gr FMJs and SPs.

My choice would be to get a .375 H&H and use 200 gr to 270 gr projectiles for the smaller stuff, and 300 grs for the likes of buffalo etc.

Regarding ammo .375 H&H would be more common especially for heavier bullets (ie 300 gr) and suitable ammo for water buffalo. You might find some premium ammo in 250 gr for a .338 which will do the work. In the end you will have to reload to feed these beasts economically if you intend to do a fair amount of hunting eg lots of pig hunting.

However if the .338 is your preference seeing your stated intended uses it would also be an acceptable alternative if that is what you decide on.

Have fun.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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AussieHunter
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: NitroX]
      #96194 - 07/02/08 05:07 PM

Thanks John, So the way i see it is that the .338 is more suited to large deer with lighter skin and muscle than buffalo, and the .375 is more suited to the buffalo because they have heavy muscle tissue and heavy bone. Is this correct? How much price difference is there in factory ammo between the two mate?

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MarkR
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #96216 - 07/02/08 11:31 PM

The other thing to consider is that most rifles in 375 H&H are built on larger actions meaning that the rifles will probably be 10 1/2 lb plus range scoped and ready to go but a 338 would run closer to 9-9 1/4 lbs ready to go.

Cheers,
Mark.

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Marty
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: AussieHunter]
      #96221 - 08/02/08 12:58 AM

Quote:

I will only be shooting Australian water buffalo.

Oh is that all...

Having shot one but not the other, the Aussie Buff, as I understand it, can soak up more lead than the African model. I realise all animals are different but that is certainly my understanding. Of course I am prepared to listen to anyone who has nailed both.

Regardless. When you stalk in to 50 or 30 meters from your first Buff, you WILL wish you bought a .375 instead of the .338. Best place to sell a .375 is next to a guy with a .338 about to shoot a Buff. Best place to sell a .416 is next to a guy with a .375.... Best place to sell a 458 is nexxt to a guy with a 416.....you get the idea.

When it gets to trigger pulling time you will want a bigger calibre.

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DarylS
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: Marty]
      #96229 - 08/02/08 02:20 AM

NitroX - the .338 will do about 2,660fps with a 275gr. using H4350, an extremem powder.
: I seem to recall the Winchester factory 300gr. for it ran around 2,440fps, quite similar to the original .375H&H 300gr. factory Kynochs. of course, the 275gr. Speers and 300gr. Winchesters are no longer produced, but there are custom bullets available in these weights.
; The .338 is a find round inded, but I've never owned one, worked on several for friends and developed loads for them, but never owned one. I have owned several .375's in H&H as well as .375/06IMP's. I have seen little diffference on our game between the various .375's including my 9.3x62. they all seem to duplicate each others effects on game. You could probably add the .338 to that as well.
; I have a very good friend and hunting buddy, of 25 years, who has always had a .338 or three. For his guiding back-up gun, he uses a .375H&H, but packs a .338 while on his own hunts.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: NitroX]
      #96242 - 08/02/08 04:38 AM

Quote:

If you wanted one rifle to hunt all big game with wherever you go in Australia or the world the .375 will do it. ... Recoil [of the 338] would be marginally less than a .375.



As one who owns and shoots both, I very much like both cartridges. Without getting into what one will do that the other won't (not much), I do have an observation to make. The perceived recoil of the 338 Win Mag is much more unpleasant than the 375 H&H Mag.

Take care, Tom

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: Tatume]
      #96277 - 08/02/08 12:31 PM

I am a big fan of the .338 Win. Mag. I would think it the premier cartridge for the plains game and large African antelope. It certainly is a dandy for the Rocky Mountain Elk, which I know from experience.

I agree with Ken Waters' assessment of the .338 Win. Mag. He maintained that you aren't really getting the use out of the rifle if you shoot bullets weighing less than 250 grains. Those who use the 200 and 225 grain bullets should be shooting the .300 Mag. The .338 comes into its prime at 250 grains and above.

I have not shot the 300 grain bullets in the .338, but I'm sure a good bonded bullet of that caliber and weight would be sufficient for water buffalo. I recall a member of this board bragging up the kills of water buffalo by his 6.5x54 MS carbine.

I have owned several .375's (own 3 at this time) and two .338's (both still in the safe).

Having said the above comments, I will say without hesitation that if I ever get the chance to face a water buffalo or a Cape Buffalo, I will not be using a .338 Mag. I assure you my choice will be .45 caliber or above. Big heavy bullets can do amazing things.

So I don't see a choice between the .338 and the .375. I think the avid hunter and shooter should own both. Use them appropriately for the tasks to which they are best suited.

And by the way, I perceive the recoil of a .338 Mag. to be softer than the .375 H&H, but I have heard others say the opposite (as above).

Curl

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RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Plains99
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Re: .338 Win Mag VS .375 H&H [Re: CptCurl]
      #96336 - 09/02/08 03:57 AM

I have owned both and while recoil from the .338 is less there is simply no comparison between the .338 and .375 for game larger than elk. I gave up my .338 and kept the .375 because I didn't feel I needed both and the .375 is so much more flexible... and would certainly be my preference for buffalo of the two (although I'd pick a .458 for that job in place of either). I felt that I might as well keep (and learn to shoot) the .375 even though it is more gun than I often need in North America but is so much more beneficial for large game when I need it. Presently I jump from 300 Weatherby to .375 H&H in my rifle safe. The .300 Weatherby does nearly everything I want but I have the .375 when I need it. The .338 didn't fit as well as those two combined and was redundant both ways.

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