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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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kcordell
.275 member


Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 78
Loc: Deep South
Help needed on 8x57IR
      #93744 - 07/01/08 03:01 PM

Hi,

New to this forum and I am glad I found it. Tons of great information here.

Question, I came across a drilling that someone found in an attic. It is a Simson and has it's original pre-war Hensoldt Dialytan scope and mounts. It is in 16 x 16 and 8x57 IR. My question is IR the same as the S&B 8x57JR? This is .318.

thanks for any and all comments.

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: kcordell]
      #93747 - 07/01/08 03:13 PM

8X57IR and 8X57JR are the same and both use the .318" bullet. The S (.323") bullets are loaded in cases with black primers in Europe to distinguish them from the "J" and "JR" ammunition. All the American factory loads, as far as I know, are loaded with the .323" bullets.

You're fortunate to have such a drilling at your disposal. I have a Sauer Model 26, which is a side lock drilling with separate rifle barrel cocking by means of a lever on the left side of the action. Cocking the rifle lock shifts the front trigger to fire the rifle barrel, and after firing the rifle barrel, or uncocking the rifle lock, the trigger must be returned to shot by means of a tiny button located adjacent to it.

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kcordell
.275 member


Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 78
Loc: Deep South
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: xausa]
      #93754 - 07/01/08 03:51 PM

The Sauer drillings are my favorite. I have a side cocker Sauer in 12x12 x3030. It was imported to the US by Charles Daly. They are fine arms and one of my favorite in the field (alas, no scope though) :-).

Thanks for the information on the IR. I was hoping that it would be as easy as buying a box of the S&B JR.

I will post a pic of the drilling when I get a minute.

Take care,

KC

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Taylor416
.300 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 161
Loc: Central West, New South Wales....
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: kcordell]
      #93946 - 09/01/08 11:55 PM




Woodleigh make .318 projectiles if you need a source of projectiles!


cheers
Chris

--------------------
Love to hunt!

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: kcordell]
      #94119 - 12/01/08 03:16 PM

Quote:

The Sauer drillings are my favorite. I have a side cocker Sauer in 12x12 x3030. It was imported to the US by Charles Daly. They are fine arms and one of my favorite in the field (alas, no scope though) :-).

KC





Like this...?

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: kcordell]
      #94122 - 12/01/08 03:21 PM

kc...

Slug the bore. Many of the 8X57JRs have a .320, and you can use .321 170gr 32 Spl bullets. It was what we did many years ago, when there was no US source for .318 diameter bullets.

Many of the pre-war 8mm drillings have a loose bore, and 5 out of the 7 I've owned in 8X57 had .320 or .321 bores, although designated for the .318.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: luv2safari]
      #94125 - 12/01/08 04:41 PM

My side lock Sauer is identical to yours, except it lacks the folding diopter and has a cheek piece stock. It is, I believe, a Model 26.

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: luv2safari]
      #94136 - 12/01/08 11:19 PM

Quote:

kc...

Slug the bore. Many of the 8X57JRs have a .320, and you can use .321 170gr 32 Spl bullets. It was what we did many years ago, when there was no US source for .318 diameter bullets.

Many of the pre-war 8mm drillings have a loose bore, and 5 out of the 7 I've owned in 8X57 had .320 or .321 bores, although designated for the .318.



I had the same experience with an 8x57JR double I had many years ago.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5503
Loc: United States
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: CptCurl]
      #94139 - 13/01/08 02:07 AM

Gents:

Lee bullet sizing dies are available and can be custom made to adjust cheap and available .323's to .321, .320., .318 etc.

As for "oversize" barrels, Charles Newton in his writings, and Labbett and Meade in their excellent book ".303 Inch", identify the intentional boring/rifling of early-20th Century European rifles to .002+- GREATER than bullet diameter. If this is the case with the Drillings mentioned, .320 or so would in fact be spot-on for .318 bullets. Many European rifles do have "oversize" groove barrels so the sources may indeed be right.

These sources indicate that at least early on, riflemakers determined that there were pressure advantages to such a relationship between bullets and groove depth {at least with the relatively fast-burning powders commonly used then} and with these fast powders, bullet "setup" mated the bullet with the groove depth for good accuracy. Obviously this applies to conventionally-constructed, lead-core bullets, not solid copper, "monolithic"-type bullets. There are some pictures of setup tests in L&M's book that clearly demonstrate this process.

Newton goes on to state essentially that he was one of the first to realize that with modern designed strong, bolt action rifles, no "oversize" boring was necessary.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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kcordell
.275 member


Reged: 06/01/08
Posts: 78
Loc: Deep South
Re: Help needed on 8x57IR [Re: 9.3x57]
      #94225 - 14/01/08 01:58 PM

Luv2safari,

Yes, exactly!!! I have the same one. One of my favorites and my only 12 ga drilling.

All,

Great information above. Yes, I will slug the bore and check. I am hoping the S&B JR will work but will have to see. Since I have had some more time to look that this recent acquisition, Simson & Suhl Drilling, a little closer, I belive it probably sat in that attic for a bit too long :-). The rifle spring is broken and it appears that the rifle barrel has become a little loose as I can, with a little pressure, separate it from the rib.

I really like this one. The original scope and overall combination make me want to get it right. I will send it to a good smith I know and see what he can do to correct.

In the meantime (I am sure it will sit in his shop for a year), I have a neat little Imman Meffert (not a Doral) in 16 x 16 x 7mm that I need to get better aquainted with prior to a upcoming boar hunt.

Hey does anyone have any thoughts on 2 1/2" slugs or 00 for a 16ga? Love to get these little gems in proper configuration for future hunts... :-).

Thanks for all the great replies!





Edited by kcordell (14/01/08 02:27 PM)

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