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Thanks for the info. Interesting.

Here are a couple more tests I shot this past weekend.

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=231211

For more 9.3 bullet tests see the ".375 Penetration" post in Reloading.

Here are some observations from my use of the .45-70. It seems the cartridge might have controversy status around here. All my experience has been with 2 Marlin 1895's.

The .45-70 is a very interesting cartridge, particularly so in a strong action such as the Marlin 1895. The trouble as far as I am concerned is that it prints different loads to wildly different POI and unless the gun has easily adjustable sights a guy is absolutely best finding one load and sticking to it. A 300 gr JHP at 3000 fps will print somewhere in the next county compared to a 405 gr JSP at 1200. I'm not sure what all that means for a double .45-70, meaning I wonder if a guy would have to alter his loads possibly to a load he really doesn't like in order to get the thing to regulate. And in my opinion I would NOT, for example, want to be stuck shooting the 405/1200 load.

My brother has had excellent results with a 300/1800 load on deer. It shoots flat to 100 yards. Crazy to say that but a 405/1100 or 405/1200 doesn't, needing sometimes {yes it varies} upwards of 2 inches or more midrange to zero at 100. This doesn't sound like a big deal but where we hunt we need to be able to literally thread needles to kill deer. But don't look down on a 300 JHP at 1800 to 2100 fps out of the Marlin. It kills deer just fine and usually does so with a hole on the offside the size of {who's reading this?...} a cricket ball!

I myself have tended to go a different way and have used the Lee 402 grain Hollow Point cast bullet for all my hunting {I think, might have shot a deer or two with a JHP}. Anyway, that Lee I cast of straight wheelweights, unhardened, using a grease felt and card wad column over a compressed load of 3031 I put together and driving to 1640 fps. Yes, this bullet can be pushed to near 1900 fps but in the Marlin is pure unadulterated misery to shoot. I'd rather get audited by the IRS again than shoot another magazinefull.

But that 402HP/1640 load is a killer. I've shot bear, deer and 2 big semiwild range cattle with it. One of those cattle was among three that were struck on a road by a motorist and injured. It went went berserk, aggressively charging and chasing the Sheriff's Deputy {9mm and M16 armed} under his patrol car and the rancher up the mountain {he mounted fortunately, but unarmed}. None of this did I know when the rancher asked me if I wanted her for the freezer. Cheap meat? Sure. I declined to use a friend's .38 revolver he had in his pocket and instead took the Marlin. I'm really glad I didn't take the pistol...

The cow had an injured hind leg but it didn't seem to slow her. As I said, I didn't know the "history" on this animal but I did know something was up because the rancher was now parked about a quarter of a mile away in his pickup and not getting any closer. I found the bovine peacefully chewing her cud over in the landing at the cedar mill. I walked up behind her to put one in the back of her head and she must have heard me approach as in one graceful {?} movement she was up, swapped ends and without further ado came hell-for-leather for me when I got to about 30 yards.

I'll hazard a guess {only half tongue-in-cheek} that our mobile butcher has taken more big beef charges than most any barload of PH's in Africa and I remembered what he told me and did so. Stuck the bullet 2 inches below a line drawn between her eyes as her head was stuck straight out pointed toward you-know-who.

At the shot she dropped like Clinton's pants at a Mary Kay Convention, dead as Clinton's honor.

All that to say this: That 402 went through the head, pulped the neck and came to rest in the shoulder, 24 inches of penetration through bone and heavy sinew. You farm boys know what a big crossbred commercial cow looks and weighs like.

The Lee 402HP acts like a Nosler Partition. I've shot other game where I needed excess penetration {shooting through boughs to get to treed bear} and it works. It is my favorite bullet for the .45-70 at medium-high velocities. Only trouble with it is it is a wee bit undersize for my Marlin. My wad column takes care of leading problems in the summer, but at -10 Fahrenheit you can expect a streak or two of leading.

The .45-70 has it's place in the scheme of things. It is heartily NOT comparable to a .470 or .500 or even .458 Win Mag and it surprises me to hear that some might think it is, but it can be a very dependable killer on biggish game. Picking the right bullet and driving it to over 1500 fps helps.

Having said all that, I think a double 9.3x74R would be far more useful for the general run of hunting.

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