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bulldog563
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Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX
      #76984 - 19/04/07 01:50 PM

Just saw this on the Hunting Report;

Fair Chase Cape Buffalo Hunts In Texas

(Originally published in the August 2006 issue.)



Here’s an interesting find. Correspondent Ray Sasser tells us there is a place in Texas that has set its sights on creating an American version of the experience of going on safari in southern African. This company even intends to offer hunts for Cape buffalo. He writes:


“The Crown X Ranch is a 37,000-acre property in the Chinati Mountain Range 34 miles south of Marfa, Texas. It is owned by a wealthy German named Howard Schwerdtfeger, who, enamored with the American West, began putting the Crown X Ranch together some 28 years ago. In 1997 Schwerdtfeger started collecting exotic animals. He game-fenced about 7,000 acres, including one 6,000-acre pasture and numerous smaller enclosures for breeding pens. He currently has 30 species of mostly African game on hand, including kudu, gemsbok, sable, eland, waterbuck, nyala, addax and even Cape buffalo.

“The Crown X currently has three Cape buffalo bulls, and Schwerdtfeger is shopping for cows and more bulls. He plans to offer fair-chase hunts for all this game, including the Cape buffalo. In fact, he is currently enclosing three sides of his 37,000 acres with game-proof fence. The fourth side is the mountain range, which creates a natural barrier that will keep most of the animals from leaving the Crown X. Mountain species like aoudad and ibex will come and go at will. The elevations on the Crown X range from 4,200 feet to 7,700 feet.

“‘What I’m trying to create is an environment similar to a very large South African hunting ranch,” Schwerdtfeger told me. ‘The animals will be free-ranging, self-sustaining herds that interact with one another. We have at least 1,000 animals now, and they are reproducing well.’

“That is basically what sets the Crown X apart from other Texas exotic operations I have visited. The animals to be hunted on the Crown X are going to be animals that were born and raised on the property, and most of the hunts will be for free-ranging animals on 30,000 acres unbroken by additional game fences.

“Many Texas exotics operations may have several thousand acres overall, but are divided into smaller pastures, each contained by a game fence. Other hunting operations also typically buy animals from dealers and release them just before the hunt. Some of those animals are not particularly afraid of people and are not familiar with the terrain of the property where they are released. Many ranches have only a handful of animals mature enough to be considered trophies.

“Schwerdtfeger has brought in veteran Texas hunting outfitter Jim Roche to help with the operation. Roche has now run a couple of exploratory hunts on the Crown X Ranch, and his enthusiasm for the place is through the roof. The Crown X will be offering hunts this year and is in the planning stages of building its own hunting lodge. Clients this year will have two lodging options. One is to stay in a portable camp that Roche has previously used for Alaskan moose hunts. He describes it as a very comfortable hunting camp located on the ranch. A second option is to stay at the neighboring Cibolo Creek Ranch, a 4-star resort that regularly hosts the rich and famous, including actor and Texas resident Tommy Lee Jones. Cibolo Creek Ranch is a 25-minute drive from the Crown X and has a 5,300-foot paved runway that’s ideal for most private aircraft.

“The price structure is not yet complete, but the basic hunting fee is $250 a day (based on double occupancy) with trophy fees added on. Roche said some of the ranch’s more common animals carry relative bargain prices — $4,500 for eland, $1,950 for aoudad, $1,750 for purestrain mouflon. The Crown X also has native North American game such as Rocky Mountain elk, desert mule deer, Carmen Mountain whitetails (a subspecies of whitetail similar to Coues’ deer) and javelina.

“The Schwerdtfeger family believes its investment and dedication to creating a South African-style hunting preserve will benefit from concerns about worldwide terrorism, airline woes and trophy importation problems. They expect most of their clients to be Americans, but hunting African game in Texas may appeal to a worldwide clientele, especially those who travel to the Southwest on business. For more details, contact Jim Roche at 325-853-1555, or visit his web site at www.magnumguideservice.com.

--------------------
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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: bulldog563]
      #77035 - 20/04/07 04:27 AM

I'll either hunt African big game, including Cape buffalo, in Africa, or else I won't be hunting it at all.

Don't get me wrong, I love the great state of Texas, and I love to hunt there, but not for African game..........

AD


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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: allenday]
      #77036 - 20/04/07 04:36 AM

The upside of such gamefarms in Texas or elsewhere could potentially be that at least a few less people will go to Africa, leaving more room for us!

I wonder who they will use as trackers? Will they also be imported from Africa?


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allenday
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: EricD]
      #77062 - 20/04/07 08:29 AM

Maybe from across the Rio Grande!

AD


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: allenday]
      #77091 - 20/04/07 05:21 PM

"“The Crown X currently has three Cape buffalo bulls, and Schwerdtfeger is shopping for cows and more bulls. He plans to offer fair-chase hunts for all this game, including the Cape buffalo."

With only three cape buffalo bulls and NO COWS (good breeding plan there ), even if he buys more semi-tame cape buffalo it will be a LONG TIME before there is anything resembling FAIR CHASE cape buffalo hunting on that game farm. If ever.

How is fencing three sides of the 'ranch' going to keep antelope in? Mountains going to keep them in? I doubt it.

The article reads like BS to me.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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hoppdoc
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: NitroX]
      #77097 - 20/04/07 09:04 PM

With what he has and the size of his herd it would be cheaper to go to Africa.Fair Chase et al-

I bet even getting them into the USA involves paperwork that goes on for years!!

How did he get them into the USA? I thought it was illegal to import cape buffalo.
Dangerous animal and all that---

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Double_Trouble
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Reged: 27/04/06
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: NitroX]
      #77100 - 20/04/07 09:29 PM

Nitro
in fairness,the article does say "that the mountains will keep MOST of the game in" but I, like you, agree the mountains leave a pretty big hole and I cant see paying for and importing exotic game animals and then turning them loose so they can free range their way across the southwestern USA.

Makes little or no sense to me.

DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #77107 - 20/04/07 10:07 PM

Quote:

"that the mountains will keep MOST of the game in" but I, like you, agree the mountains leave a pretty big hole ...




Even buffalo can get up some pretty rough country. He would need pretty solid cliff lines to keep the game in.


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BFaucett
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Reged: 13/01/04
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Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: NitroX]
      #77157 - 21/04/07 05:37 AM

Ohhh lord... I can just see it now.... Feral Cape Buffalo to go along with our feral hogs here in Texas!!!

-Bob F.


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Double_Trouble
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: BFaucett]
      #77159 - 21/04/07 05:50 AM

Just another reason that the Lone Star State is a little slice of heaven!


DT

--------------------
Double Trouble,
Speak not of what you do not know.
Listen up when it's time to.


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DoubleD
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #77171 - 21/04/07 01:49 PM

Why should I pay the same price or more to hunt African game in the U.S. than in Africa?

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: DoubleD]
      #77466 - 26/04/07 02:44 PM

Actually I think if one was hunting on the ranch for plains game, and there were also a handfull (better if even more) of cape buffalo wild or semi-wild on the ranch, it would be quite cool. In Africa when hunting plains game I always find it more fun if you are hunting somewhere which also has elephant or buffalo or big cats ....... A lions roar in the distance or at night ..... Finding elephant spoor and droppings over the blood splotches of a wounded zebra you are following up ..... all add to the fun of the hunt.

Hunting cape buffalo at a place like that would not be for me, however if they are appeared wild - I have seen water buffalo behind wire on a very large property that were tame as cows - and were cheap enough why not? It is still hunting. Usually the price is a multiple of what it costs in Africa in Texas.

But it would be fun to hunt an eland for meat, down the road (not down my road, but for you! ) if the price was right. If the hunting was hard and fun it is still a trophy. Just not an African trophy.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Trapper
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Reged: 29/03/07
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: NitroX]
      #77522 - 27/04/07 12:23 PM

Funny someone brought this up. I just saw this add in my Jan/Feb Safari magazine
http://www.jroutfitters.com/index2.html

The place is in Florida.

--------------------
"The mass of men lead lives of quite desperation"


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johncxr
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Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 3
Loc: Alpine, Texas, USA
Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: Trapper]
      #91014 - 09/12/07 07:22 AM

Here is the website to what you are commenting on.

www.cxsafaris.com


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: NitroX]
      #91026 - 09/12/07 10:19 AM

Quote:

Actually I think if one was hunting on the ranch for plains game, and there were also a handfull (better if even more) of cape buffalo wild or semi-wild on the ranch, it would be quite cool. In Africa when hunting plains game I always find it more fun if you are hunting somewhere which also has elephant or buffalo or big cats ....... A lions roar in the distance or at night ..... Finding elephant spoor and droppings over the blood splotches of a wounded zebra you are following up ..... all add to the fun of the hunt. .





**I agree totally with the above--that is what hunting if Africa is all about..Not just the harvesting of an animal..however there will be those that will take advantage of this but they will NEVER know the thrill of actually being in Africa...which is too bad for them..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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gator
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Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 41
Loc: Florida
Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: Ripp]
      #91032 - 09/12/07 11:34 AM

They have been doing that for a few years now.

I think its cool, some beef running around in the back yard.


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: gator]
      #91045 - 09/12/07 01:43 PM

Fired off an e-mail out of curiousity--

subject = Buff hunting
comments = Are Cape Buff available and for how much??
REMOTE_HOST: 74.229.240.17




We have yet to establish a breeding herd of Cape Buffalo. The females are almost imposible to come by. They cost from $50,000.00 to purchase in America. Once we have established a breeding herd that is sustainable we may consider hunting. This is most likely ten to fifteen years from now, we don't really know. As our website states, we only hunt to manage the herds of animals that we have, the price of the animal depends on how much demand there is. Sometimes there is more money in selling the animals than there is in hunting them.

Please visit our website again for new information.

Thank you for contacting us.

John Schwerdtfeger


His plans are obvious.Most of us will be infirm or dead before any Buff hunting could take place in the states--

Obviously,for Buff its "Off to Africa"!!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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gator
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: hoppdoc]
      #91082 - 10/12/07 02:18 AM

There are a few places in Texas and Florida that have the Buffalo. Those are the only 2 states that I know of. They usually advertize in SCI's magazine.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: gator]
      #92856 - 29/12/07 02:13 AM

Very interesting discussion.

Since it appears there is almost total agreement here, I'm going to offer up a completely different view of this place.

First, my own opinion is that ranch hunting of any type is not very appealing to me at least as long as there are other options. So let me get that out up front. In that I agree with most of the posts here.

My second point is that it is fine to say "Texas isn't Africa" {which is admittedly true... }, but I suggest that neither is Africa. At least South Africa. And SOUTH AFRICA is the confessed model for the operation.

I am a life member of the KwaZulu/Natal Hunters and Conservation Association, was involved for a short time in the devlopment of a so-called "wilderness leadership school" in South Africa, own a small ranch myself here in Idaho, and am watching with great interest the creeping change of land management here in Idaho among the large private landowners {timber companies, primarily}. I also spent a summer putting 5,500 km on a rented vehicle travelling throughout South Africa from joburg to Cape Town via Natal and the coast. Folks, ever-increasing, intensive land management is on its way wherever is doesn't already exist...

At any rate, I still try to keep somewhat abreast of the trends there, and I have hunted on a couple different game ranches in South Africa and spent some time studying the game ranch system for personal reasons related to my own place. I have hiked and travelled {a little hunting also} in some remote parts of central Africa. A true remote, wild "African" experience is available in South Africa, but it is far more difficult to obtain than most tourist hunters are willing to admit in public after they return to the States IMO. There are ranches in SA that offer a bit of the old Africa, but with its burgeoning population, highways, development and the nature of game fenced operations being what they are, it is as easy to find a wilderness-type experience in the American West as it is in South Africa. In fact, easier in my opinion. My opinion is that South Africa doesn't so much offer "Africa" as much as it offers the ability to kill a lot of animals fast "at a sitting" so-to-speak and in that only, to make a comparison, does it "beat" the US West.

"Wilderness" is not what South Africa has to sell. Hunters know, but must admit, that the relatively large-scale killing of game is what attracts them to south African game ranches and this is what has, curiously, saved the game as we all know. How many hunters have you ever heard of who travel all the way to South Africa to kill one head of game? It probably happens, but I personally have never met anyone who did. "Large bags", after all, are one of the main objectives of game ranching wherever it is practised. Many US hunters don't pay much attention to the contrived nature of game ranch hunts in South Africa and watching the various hunting shows on TV will almost never result in an education about the truth of the contrived nature game ranch management, but it is there. Game ranching is a highly sophisticated industry. Done right, it gives the impression of turning the hunter loose in "The Wild" to "experience Africa as Cornwallis Harris did" but the reality is of course, much different on many game-fenced ranches. No, on all.

I believe this German fellow is looking at what South Africa IS, and predicting what it will BE. I believe he sees the reality that the political situation in South Africa is probably headed downhill and/or the "overmanagement" and development of the game ranch system will lose its luster for many hunters, and at some point the ability to shoot a bunch of animals will outweigh WHERE they are shot, as the WHERE will be more trouble to get to and experience than its worth.

I bring this up because I believe that fellows like this guy are betting that South Africa slides into the abyss of political and economic mismanagement common to Africa, and that the hunting system and quality goes down the tubes also. Internally, some South African politicians have already criticized the game ranching industry for abuses involving canned lion hunts, etc. That they are addressing these issues indicates that there is still some life left in the concept of "fair chase", but even without canned lion hunts, is hunting impala on a 3,000 acre game-fenced ranch "fair chase"?

Add to this the threat of terrorism and political instability, ever-increasing complexity to importing trophies, and as the article states, there may in fact be a future for a fellow like this guy. Remember, NO game ranch operation happens overnight. It takes YEARS to develop same, and it is always a "work-in-progress" as the waters are tested as to which game is a money-maker and which isn't. Issues like fencing, etc, are management obstacles that merely await investment. They are not insurmountable. Take a run down to Lewiston Idaho and gander up at the cattle fencing on the mountains surrounding town and you will quickly shake off the notion that physical danger, hazard and difficulty are stop signs to fencing operations.

In the final analysis, maybe you fellows won't hunt Cape buffalo at a ranch in Texas, but the German guy is betting others will. I personally think he is dead right. I suspect that in 15 years, lots of others will!

I am old enough to remember when the rank and file of hunters spit on the ground at the notion of hunting nilgai, eland, auodad and ibex on "game farms" in Texas.

Cape buff will be just one more critter to add to the mix.

I'm just wondering when all that old, worn out Sante Fe railroad track is going to be ripped up and used to keep in the herds of elephant...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
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Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: johncxr]
      #92878 - 29/12/07 09:48 AM

Quote:

Here is the website to what you are commenting on.

www.cxsafaris.com




John

Welcome to NE.com, Are you the John who runs this ranch?

If so perhaps you can give us an update or two from time to time?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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gator
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Reged: 03/12/07
Posts: 41
Loc: Florida
Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: mickey]
      #92899 - 29/12/07 03:17 PM

I think this is really cool ... and i hope it grows.

Right now best place to hunt russian 650lb bores is Palo Alto CA,

I do like hunting in Africa, but the option of finding some game here is cool.


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: gator]
      #92913 - 29/12/07 11:30 PM

Maybe they should start hunting tigers at the local zoo's.
It would probably be just as exciting!

ABOUT AS EXCITING AS WATCHING PAINT DRY !

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #92923 - 30/12/07 02:04 AM

Quote:

Maybe they should start hunting tigers at the local zoo's.
It would probably be just as exciting!

ABOUT AS EXCITING AS WATCHING PAINT DRY !




Excepting the San Francisco Zoo, you might be right...

I find all these discussions quite interesting, as they uncover the multitude of views on what constitutes ethical and/or merely enjoyable hunting.

My personal standard is that as long as a sustainable yield of species is maintained and kill methods are efficient {preventing needless pain} and management methods do not involve suffering of the crop or spread of disease, the METHODS OF MANAGEMENT OR CULLING don't bother me though some might not interest me and I might not involve myself in them for merely personal preference reasons. That's the old farmer/rancher in me coming out I suppose. Critters and land are, to me, resources to be managed. The management METHODS are unimportant from a moral standpoint, but must be established using local standards, traditions and possibilities {available skills, equipment, etc}.

What is acceptable in one community is totally unacceptable or possibly even illegal in another.

For example, some might say that shooting game behind a fence is "unsporting". Others might say that other methods are unsporting; the use of bait, or high seats, or feeders, or scopes, or rifles or compound bows, or hounds or vehicles, or helicopters or beaters, or, cover scents, or shooting at night or...or...or...

There are methods that do not appeal to me, but I do not believe any are "wrong", unless wanton waste is involved. Having said that, even some forms of what might be seen by some as wanton waste is acceptable for some particular management reason. Witness my leaving of ground squirrels for the eagles and Marrakai's leaving of buff meat for the ants. Looking in on any "farming" operation and passing judgement is very difficult. Local populations must decide what should occur in their areas, but establishing universal rules for game management is very difficult to say the least.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #93015 - 31/12/07 07:21 AM

Quote:

ABOUT AS EXCITING AS WATCHING PAINT DRY !



I would have to agree - its not even as if opportunities to hunt the Cape Buff are declining - wilderness/communal land hunting availability is high and then there is Australia... What about putting more effort into restoring bison habitat rather than more exotics?


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9.3x57
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Re: Cape Buffalo Hunting in TX [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #93025 - 31/12/07 07:45 AM

Quote:

What about putting more effort into restoring bison habitat rather than more exotics?




My personal sentiments exactly. The news report says the fellow is enamoured with the American West. Introduction of Cape Buffalo doesn't exactly appear to reflect that.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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