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bradhe
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Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 14
Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price?
      #76762 - 17/04/07 01:39 PM


Any views on a fair price for this one?

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores...mp;mode=viewGun


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mickey
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bradhe]
      #76763 - 17/04/07 01:47 PM

I think mid 30's.

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Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500Nitro
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bradhe]
      #76765 - 17/04/07 01:48 PM



It's not worth anything to me if it doesn't fit me or it doesn't shoot.

What do you compare it against ?

Why has it been discounted - does it have anything wrong with it ?


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500Nitro
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: mickey]
      #76769 - 17/04/07 02:32 PM


Mickey

Is that because they have 39999 on it ?

If it had 45,000 - 47,000 on it, would you still
say Mid 30's ?


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mickey
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #76771 - 17/04/07 02:43 PM

Yes. I know of two MT rifles that are similiar, one 470 and one 577 that sold in the last month for mid to low 30's prices.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Double_Trouble
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bradhe]
      #76787 - 17/04/07 11:10 PM

have a close look at the margins at the metal to wood fit and even at the butt pad to stock in the photos, granted that these arent the best of photos but there is clearly fit issues that IMO do not make this a "best" gun. I would like to see more and better photos of the metal finish to see if those issues exist elsewhere on the gun.


DT

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Double Trouble,
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Listen up when it's time to.


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BigFiveJack
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bradhe]
      #76793 - 18/04/07 12:25 AM

For 40K you can order a NEW, built in the U.K. double riflefrom

www.ttproctor.com. Why buy a modern rifle from this NON U.K.

maker at that dollar amount?

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

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DarylS
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #76799 - 18/04/07 12:57 AM

You've an excellent point, Jack. I don't like the shaping of the comb, either.

--------------------
Daryl


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Double_Trouble
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #76800 - 18/04/07 01:12 AM

Big Five Jack:

I am not quite sure what the "NON UK" factor has to do with the matter but spending 40K on a rifle that has issues that can be seen in even poor quality photos does seem relevant.


DT

--------------------
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EricCioe
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #76810 - 18/04/07 02:54 AM

Quote:

For 40K you can order a NEW, built in the U.K. double riflefrom

www.westleyrichards.com or www.ttproctor.com.




I just priced out a basic Westley Richards boxlock with a few cheap options (one folding sight in addition to the standing one, etc.); it was priced at $55,000 or so. Proctor didn't have pricing or models, for that matter, on their website.

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dnovo
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #76814 - 18/04/07 03:04 AM

I love the whole concept of 'if its from the UK then it is the best/only DR out there.' Not so. First, you aren't going to get a new or even close to new Purdey, H&H or top quality WR for "$40,000." But why assume that if it's not UK it is not a great DR? Have you taken a good look at some of the Ferlach guns that are currently being produced? Hartmann and Weiss?

Sure, the UK produced guns have the 'proper'cachet and normally have excellent resale, but there are a whole bunch of marginal and tired UK DRs floating around that are priced much higher than a pre-WWII Sauer, Merkel, etc in far better condition and showing basic build quality that meets or exceeds the average UK double. Even after the 'big war', Ferlach and Suhl quality could match that of the UK makers. Indeed, I have a Josef Winkler that has fit and finish and wood that are UK 'best gun' in every sense of that term. While I will concede the Continental penchant for heavy game scene engraving is not my taste, this rifle has wonderfully executed fine, tight rose and scroll and detachable sidelocks with internals that are as much a work of art as the locks on my 476 WR Droplock. The best part is price, a whole lot less than a UK best quality would bring.

But I digress (ya get wording as ya become an old fart.) A top quality Belgian/French/German/Austrian DR will bring good money in today's market, and will bring in the $30,000+ range. But IHMO, it will bring that price if it is a sidelock. If you can get that for a boxlock, bless you, but that is higher than I would pay. Too many excellent UK AND Continental boxlocks out there for a lot less. Thys is generally a well built and respected name but it is not a 'name' I would pay extra for.

Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (18/04/07 03:09 AM)


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500Nitro
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: dnovo]
      #76815 - 18/04/07 03:16 AM



I definately agree that it is not a "best" gun.


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BigFiveJack
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #76829 - 18/04/07 04:48 AM

I'm was mistaken about the WESTLEY RICHARDS pricing, sorry.

I don't know what made me think that they were priced at

21,000 pounds. A mental slip up. I am not saying that

Ferlach rifles or other rifle makers from the other various

nations can't make very fine rifles. But the benchmark is

the one set by those in the U.K. around 100 yrs back. Even

new London rifles are regularly compared to older ones made

by the same company and deemed "less" than the old ones.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
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500grains
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: BigFiveJack]
      #76833 - 18/04/07 06:15 AM

Looks like a basic WR boxlock is about US$53K.

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bulldog563
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: 500grains]
      #76835 - 18/04/07 06:47 AM

Personally I were looking for a DR at around 40K I would order a Proctor rifle in the caliber/specs that I wanted over buying this Thys. It is pretty heavy for a 470 at 12 pounds and why the discount?

This Proctor rifle is a 275 Rigby.



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500Nitro
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bulldog563]
      #76836 - 18/04/07 06:52 AM


bulldog

Nice CCH.


275 Rigby ??


My 500 Barrels are nearly as thick as that at the breech.

Any idea why they are so thick ?


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4seventy
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: Double_Trouble]
      #76841 - 18/04/07 09:10 AM

Yeah,
I agree that the pad appears to be poorly fitted and some of the wood to metal fit does not look right, but on the other hand, the extended top tang actually appears to be inletted quite well.
A point I'd like to make though is that photos of rifles can be very deceptive.
It is possible to photograph a well made rifle and make it look rough, and it is also possible to photograph a poorly built rifle and make it look great.

I believe you really need to handle the gun to get true story as sometimes the real thing is quite different to what is portrayed in the photos.

Maybe this is not a "best" boxlock by Thys, but IMO it sure ain't his lowest grade either.


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dnovo
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bulldog563]
      #76843 - 18/04/07 10:02 AM

Now THAT is one incredible rifle!!! My sincere compliments (and let me pause once more to wipe the drool from the screen.) That Proctor is a work of art. How long is the wait time on something that nice? And, any problems getting the finished product into the US? I had a royal pain getting a Hagn in from Canada.

By the way, the fact that Bass 'drastically reduced it price' had nothing to do with the rifle. Many times, the guns are in on consignment, and they jack the price way up. The owner then takes it back and sells it for a more realistic price, pointing the the Bass or Cabela's price to show what a 'great deal' you are getting. Or, they simply put the price up too high and then back off to use the 'hey, it's a great deal, we dropped the price to stir up interest.' Other than at a Saturn dealer, when was the last time you paid list for a car? (But I did just see a new Ferrari going for 'only' $125,000 over list. You want one, you pay the jack.) Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels


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hoppdoc
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: dnovo]
      #76880 - 18/04/07 09:40 PM

So, then may I assume that a new Proctor is the best for the $$ of new "best" Doubles one can presently order??

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dnovo
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #76964 - 19/04/07 10:14 AM

Hey, I'm still trying to find a website to look up prices. Help please!!!

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BigFiveJack
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: dnovo]
      #76967 - 19/04/07 10:50 AM

Check out "The Gun Vault On Fox Hill" found in the

advertisers section of www.doublegunshop.com -

It has for sale a Westley Richards boxlock circa

1923 in .476 WR for $36,500.00.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
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bulldog563
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: dnovo]
      #76968 - 19/04/07 10:54 AM

Website is http://www.ttproctor.com/default.asp

Says DR's start a 20K pounds.

500Nitro, I dont think they are that thick when you take into account the size of the bore. Here is a picture showing the 275 barrels next to a set of 470 and (unfinished) 600.



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500Nitro
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bulldog563]
      #76969 - 19/04/07 10:58 AM


Bulldog

Must be the angle of the photo.

Also, the taper on the barrels isn't that visible
nd I am sure they taper a lot from the chamber.


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bulldog563
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #76976 - 19/04/07 12:01 PM

You are right about that;


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Grizzly
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Re: Marcel Thys 470 Fair Price? [Re: bulldog563]
      #76981 - 19/04/07 12:34 PM

You have to wonder who is setting the prices at Cabelas and Bass Pro. I seriously doubt they have one employee each that knows squat about double rifles.

The last few doubles I have seen priced at both places were way out there price-wise.

At the DSC this past January, the rep from Cabelas was crowing to anyone who would listen about how Cabelas is the "largest double rifle seller in the US". Right.

As for the MT pictured, aside from the cosmetic comments earlier, the rifle is about 2 pounds too heavy for a 470 NE. Also, the LOP is SHORT, even with the fairly large recoil pad. It is a nice piece of wood, but adding spacers to extend the LOP would do nothing for the looks.

Nice engraving and wood, but if I recall correctly Griffen and Howe sold one of the last Thys boxlocks (458?) for around $18,000. In the proper weight and LOP. Definitely not a $22,000 difference.

And Marcel is no longer a manufacturer. That makes spare parts and shop work an issue, and of course they is no warranty to speak of.

I think $30,000 is generous. And for that money you could pick up a first rate Heym in 470 and have enough money for a trip to Africa.

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