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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Need Advise
#48115 - 27/01/06 01:40 AM

Gents,

Here is where this forum comes into play. The Jeffery that I am going to evaluate had major mechanical restoration by a noted gunsmith (Pete Mazur) - over 100 hours involed. According to the 5 page invoice, the gun appears to have been brought back to like new mechanical status. The hammers, cocking, ejecting, triggers, pins, lumps, hooks, sears, saftey, etc. were indexed or regulated to the correct specifications. Wood was repaired and mismacthed screws corrected. All metal work was hardened and tempered.

Is having this much work done normal on a 100 year old gun, or is this thing a dog.

B.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: Need Advise [Re: bonanza]
#48116 - 27/01/06 02:17 AM

bonanza

It depends on what the gun started like.

When I buy a new gun, everything you mentioned gets
looked at and work done if needed. However NONE of
my guns has taken anywhere near 100 hours and more like
2 - 5 hours.

IF the gun you are looking at was covered in pits and rust,
then it could well take a long time to get it back to looking
new.

When it mentions lumps and hooks, then it sounds like
it was tightened.

Have you thought of calling the gunsmith who did the work
and ask him what the gn looked like before he did his work.

Can you see a "before" photo ?

Hope this helps.

500 Nitro

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Need Advise [Re: 500Nitro]
#48117 - 27/01/06 02:24 AM

I plan on calling the gunsmith today - he is 3 hours behind me.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Need Advise [Re: 500Nitro]
#48118 - 27/01/06 02:29 AM

Actually - it was 30 hours research and 70 hours work. Remember this rifle has two sets of barrels and one forend. I think much of the work involed getting the barrels and forend fitting perfectly.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Rusty
.333 member

Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Re: Need Advise [Re: bonanza]
#48132 - 27/01/06 03:46 AM

B,
All I can offer is to ask you how you feel about the rifle. It is not uncommon to have many things done to an old rifle. Mazur is a noted gunsmith. Now this is'nt like having it redone by Jeffery or say Westley Richards, but close.

The most important decision to make is whether you are buying this as an investment or a shooter.

It isn't an investment piece, in fact I know damn few doubles that are.

It should be good as a shooter. Bores are paramount. As you have seen on the work order most everything is repairable, except bores.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you need to decide if you will be happy paying what you are going to pay for this rifle. If you are, then it will become the best double rifle in the world to you. My Hollis is the best double for me! I love that rifle! I didn't get a deal when I bought it, and it had problems that I was unaware of. The problem has been corrected and I am a happy camper!

If you are going to continue to question your purchase, then walk away now.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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400NitroExpress
.400 member

Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Need Advise [Re: bonanza]
#48151 - 27/01/06 05:51 AM

The short answer is no, there is nothing "normal" about 70 hours gunsmithing time on a double rifle.

It just depends on what was done. A complete restock, correctly done, can burn through 40 hours. If the action and fore-end need re-color hardening and barrels and furniture re-blacking, with lots of corrosion issues to deal with and engraving that needs to be picked up...yeah, that could take another 30 hours. Absent something like a re-stock to soak up a lot of hours, it sounds like this gun was a real mutt.

I doubt re-fitting the fore-end wood had anything to do with it. When a second set of barrels is added to be used with the same fore-end, matching the profile of the original barrels is the only way. I'm sure that was done in Ferlach.

Some "dogs" can be correctly repaired and be fine. Some can't. Talk to Mazur to see what was done. Then get the gun and the invoice to a gunmaker like J. J. for a hard look.
---------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Need Advise [Re: Rusty]
#48154 - 27/01/06 05:53 AM

Rusty,

Thanks for the advice.

Just got off the phone with Pete Mazur. He told me the condition of the rifle when it came in. The original english barrel was off-face. He dove-tailed in a piece of steel and recut the hook. He practically remade the hammers and sears as they were fucked-up by some country gunsmith. Most of the work was on the ejectors. All the work was done to the highest standards and that is why it involed 100 hours. He said most jobs take him 6 months to a year. He also test fired the two barrels with proof load. He has assured me that the gun is perfectly safe and reliable. He also mentioned that the bores are good in the original barrel and exellent in the belgium barrel. I suppose one can't ask for a better information than I just got. I don't think I'm getting a dog.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Rusty
.333 member

Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas

Re: Need Advise [Re: bonanza]
#48171 - 27/01/06 07:36 AM

Bonanza,

Looks like all your questions were answered and in a professional manner. Hope you enjoy the double if you buy it.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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akrange
.224 member

Reged: 20/12/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Michigan, United States

Re: Need Advise [Re: bonanza]
#48176 - 27/01/06 10:08 AM

Bonanza/All

Would like to know how to contact Peter Mazur for future work if needed.. I tried to get on a search.. No dice.. Website or phone.. If anyone else knows others of Peters skill level . Please let me know..

AK

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BlainSmipy
.375 member

Reged: 24/11/05
Posts: 558
Loc: Washington, USA

Re: Need Advise [Re: akrange]
#48178 - 27/01/06 11:03 AM

Here it is

530-268-2412

Colorado

--------------------
You horde gold, I horde lead.

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akrange
.224 member

Reged: 20/12/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Michigan, United States

Re: Need Advise [Re: BlainSmipy]
#48184 - 27/01/06 12:46 PM

Colorado,

Looking forward to hearing more on the Rifle as it's put thru it's paces..

Thanks,
AK

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Need Advise [Re: bonanza]
#48193 - 27/01/06 01:20 PM

bonanza

I would get the rifle checked out by an independent DR gunsmith with a good reputation. As a second opinion to the person that actually did all the work.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Need Advise [Re: bonanza]
#48263 - 28/01/06 12:04 AM

Bonanza,

I sure don't want to rain on your parade, and nobody can evaluate a DR from afar, but my advice is to be studiously skeptical and hesitant about this rifle.

It may be just like Rusty said - perfect for you and a friend from now on. Let's hope so.

But my question is: How long will the repairs will servicable? I have seen "repair" work that doesn't last. For example, if your ejectors fall out of time every couple years you have nothing but a nuisance.

I really don't know how you will evaluate this. 400NE is right. Have another qualified gunmaker, like J.J., go over it with a fine-tooth comb and compare what he sees to the itemized invoice for repairs. You need an evaluation of where it was, what was done, where it is, and where it is headed. I can tell you without hesitation that I am not qualified to make an evaluation like this. Only a first-class gunmaker is.

Finally, let me say I probably speak from one extreme. I am a stickler for condition. A re-worked gun scares me. Yet I must admit there are a lot of re-worked guns out there. Certainly the majority of the ones on the market at any given time fall into that category.

Good luck, man. And keep us posted.

Best regards,

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member

Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Need Advise [Re: CptCurl]
#48266 - 28/01/06 01:07 AM

I'm hesitant to respond too, because I don't wish to be negative, but I'm concerned as well. Be skeptical and protect yourself. It's too much money not to.

I've heard of this smith but know little about him. However, if I sent an otherwise nice double gun out for re-jointing and it came back with the hook dovetailed, you'd have to pry me off the guy. Dovetailing is a very old and outdated method of putting a fixed pin double back on face. Tig weld and plasma spray have both been used very successfully for this purpose for quite a while now. There is no longer any good reason to hack up the hook like that. On high end double guns, correct repairs certainly need to be durable, but they should also be invisible. Dovetailing is not. J. J. recently rejointed a Jeffery just like this one (but in .475 No. 2) for a friend of mine. The work was perfectly done and the repair to the hook absolutely invisible. Were I the buyer, I would discount a gun with a dovetailed hook.

With a gun like this, if the barrels are undamaged and not excessively worn, and the action is sound (not sprung, cracked, etc.) there's little else that can't be put back as good as new, provided that the work is done correctly. That's what needs to be evaluated here. Keep in mind that the fair market value of this gun is much more dependent on the condition of the original barrels than that of the new set.

Good luck with this, Bonanza.
----------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: Need Advise [Re: 400NitroExpress]
#48274 - 28/01/06 02:11 AM

400NE,

I suppressed my urge to criticize the dovetail repair to the hook, but the thoughts you expressed were in the front of my mind.

I too think the dovetail repair to the hook is indicative of less than perfect repairs. But I hate to be negative.

Another goblin dancing around in my head is this. The .450 No. 2 is known as a very low pressure cartridge. In its earlier life, how was this rifle mishandled or mis-loaded so as to knock it off the face? How did it get trashed in the first place? That's the haunting thought in my mind.

Bonanza, be careful, be objective, and don't be afraid to say "No".

JMHO

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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400NitroExpress
.400 member

Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State

Re: Need Advise [Re: CptCurl]
#48276 - 28/01/06 02:24 AM

Curl:

Yes, I had the same thought. With proper lubrication and standard pressure ammo, a gun of this quality should stay on face until the bores are shot out. Without proper lubrication, they can get off face in a hurry and the explanation here might be as simple as that.
-------------------------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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