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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Hatari
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/04
Posts: 48

The 500 AHR ?
#42651 - 01/12/05 02:33 AM

The 500 AHR is the modern version of the .500 Jeffery improved (whitout rebated rim)or just a new caliber!
Do you have a game experience with this caliber ?

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Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: Hatari]
#42654 - 01/12/05 04:50 AM

The 500 AHR is an improved 500 Jeffery. The improvement takes the form of:

1.) Rim diameter of 0.590" to 0.600" (still slightly rebated), but allows using Rigby shell holders.
2.) Neck lengthened to 0.500" (Case length 2.900") this represents an ~ 0.150" increase in neck length vs. the Jeffery.

My Bertram cases have a case volume ranging between 158gr and 165 gr of water (once fired and full length resized).

I have load data with Woodleigh bullets if necessary, just send a PM.

Regards,
Scott

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Hatari
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/04
Posts: 48

Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: ScottS]
#42662 - 01/12/05 06:00 AM

ScottS, thank you for your advice.
Is that the .500 AHR have a great advantage vs .500 Jeffery?
Isn't just a clone ? or a better caliber that the .500 Jeffery ?

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Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: Hatari]
#42687 - 01/12/05 12:44 PM

In reply to:

Is that the .500 AHR have a great advantage vs .500 Jeffery?

I do not believe so. The longer neck may help hold the bullet, but in my experience the significant recoil of both these cartridges (AHR and Jeffery) require a very good crimp. Both have adequate case volume with the AHR possessing ~ 8 to 10 more grains of water capacity.

In reply to:

Isn't just a clone ? or a better caliber that the .500 Jeffery ?

I wouldn't call it a clone, it is an "improved" design of the original 500 Jeffery. Technically speaking the caliber is the same, but I believe you are actually asking if it is a "better" cartridge. As I stated earlier I think they are very close (too close actually). The Jeffery does have the "advantage" of fitting into a standard length action. The AHR version does require a magnum length mauser (or equivalent).

I would use either without hesitation, and actually I currently use the 500 AHR. Once you have driven a big 50 you won't go back.

Scott

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: ScottS]
#42689 - 01/12/05 02:44 PM

I see the primary advantage of the .500 AHR being that it does not have a rebated rim, so it is a lot easier to get to feed reliably than the .500 Jeff.

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: 500grains]
#42690 - 01/12/05 03:13 PM

500grains

I've said it before in response to
"I see the primary advantage of the .500 AHR being that it does not have a rebated rim,
so it is a lot easier to get to feed reliably than the .500 Jeff."

The only reason that Custom 500 Jeff's didn't feed is because the Gunsmiths
who built the guns didn't bother to work out how to get them feeding correctly.

It's got nothing to do with the Cartridge.

I know of about 6 - 8 guns here that all feed 100% reliably including mine.
Some are built on M98's, the odd one on Brno's.

500 Nitro

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Hatari
.224 member

Reged: 16/12/04
Posts: 48

Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: ScottS]
#42702 - 01/12/05 10:14 PM

In finality, is that the .500 AHR isn't a better choice that the .500 jeffery for a game hunter in the bush ?
No problem with the rebated rim, no problem with the sand in the magazine who can cause damage with the feeding/ejection of the cartridge,...
Just a opinon ! When I see the hardness weather (sun, dust,...)of Africa.

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: Hatari]
#42704 - 01/12/05 11:24 PM

Hatari

I haven't shot or seen a 500AHR but in view of the previous
post showing extra grains of water held, it could get the velocity
up a bit to the 2400fps which MAY make a difference on DG.

However I have shot game with the 505 Gibbs and own a 500 Jeff
and hit any Big game animal with with a 525, 535, 570 or 600gn
bullet in the right spot (vitals) at above 2100fps and the animal knows it.

How much difference would the 500AHR make ?

I think we are starting to split hairs again.

Just my HO.

500 Nitro

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Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: 500Nitro]
#42705 - 02/12/05 12:08 AM

The 500 AHR will get you about 15 to 20 fps more muzzle velocity for the same chamber pressure, not really significant, and that is all the extra case volume really gives you. The 500 AHR does have a slightly rebated rim (not as severe as the 500 Jeffery does), I have ~ 150 examples to prove it. The rim is basically the same diameter as the 416 Rigby (plus maybe 0.005"), and it is thinner ~0.050". If you are going to have one made do not start with a 416 Rigby bolt, as you will have ejection issues big time!

I cannot agree more with 500Nitro's comments regarding the the so-called feeding problems, they most definitely are due to the gunsmiths skill/knowledge and not the cartridge. I also know there is NO difference between either the 500 Jeffery or the 500 AHR (the 505 Gibbs too) on game.

For whatever it is worth that is what I know.

Scott

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: ScottS]
#42724 - 02/12/05 05:20 AM

ScottS,

Thanks for the info on the AHR fps. I didn't realise that
it only gives that little extra.

FYI, my Custom 500 Jeff was copied directly from an original
and then quite a few more were also made, either from the original
or copied from mine. Others were just built from Scratch.
I've seen a few of them and know of others and I have never heard
of any of them having feeding problems - the only time I ever hear of
it is on these forums.

I think Fletcher J wouldn't have used one if it didn't feed ?

500 Nitro

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Re: The 500 AHR ? [Re: 500Nitro]
#42821 - 03/12/05 12:20 AM

500Nitro,

I must apologize to you and everyone else. I mispoke in my previous post, memory seems to be going, I checked the notes last night and the velocity difference is actually 30 to 40 fps (not the previously erroneously stated 15-20). I can get ~ 40 fps increase with IMR4350 and an ~ 30 fps with IMR4064 with the 500 AHR over a 500 Jeffery. Still an insignificant differential in the realm of reality.

Note to self, stop relying on the old memory!

Scott

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