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AR2201
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Reged: 31/08/05
Posts: 57
Loc: Oz
Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little
      #39378 - 20/10/05 11:15 PM

I have been rummaging around for SxS doubles with a regulation mechanism and turns out Merkel produces one in their new model 141E and it can come in 9.3x74R.

Yes! Yes! Yes! .... its ...its too good to be true.

They have hacked the barrels off at 21.5" (why? doubles are
intrinsically short anyway) and list the weight as 6.6lbs!

Wha? only 6.6lbs for a 9.3x74R but that ....

Depending on what you are stoking it with, by my calculation, that's near enough equivalent to a 7.2lb 375H&H or 9.5lb 458w.

Umm .... ouch.

Questions:

Has anybody got one of these?

Anybody used the 141E regulation mechanism?

Does anyone know if there are more options or are we stuck with the sawn off 6.6lb "mountain gun"?

If so how much weight will need to be added so the adjective "mild" will be used rather than the horrid phase "should be manageable"? I'm thinking 2 lbs

"manageable" = code for will kick the shit out of you but I am betting you are too insecure to balk at it.

AR2201
Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional.



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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: AR2201]
      #39382 - 21/10/05 12:13 AM

My 9.3 weighs 7lbs, 8 with the scope. It has a steel butt and I don't find it bad at all.

I don't like the barrel length though, much too short. I gues it is designed for Euro Drive Hunts?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: AR2201]
      #39389 - 21/10/05 03:03 AM

My 9.3x74R weighs about 9 lbs with scope. My loads of 286 gr bullets are only doing about 2150 fps and it is very mild. Barrel length is about 23 inches.

Some recoil calculations:

286 gr at 2150 fps in a 9 lb rifle - Recoil Energy of 25 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 13 fps

Same in a 6.6 lb rifle - Recoil Energy of 34 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 18 fps

Make the velocity 2350 fps - Recoil Energy of 42 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 20 fps

Add say a scope to bring the weight to 7.5 lbs - Recoil Energy of 37 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 18 fps

For comparison a .375 H&H with a 300 gr bullet at 2550 fps in a 9.5 lb rifle - Recoil Energy of 42 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 17 fps



On paper the Merkel 9.3mm double is equivalent in recoil to the average .375 BA. Would kick a bit but would be a very handy double for medium sized driven game.

Now if some dealer or manufacturer would like to donate one to NE.com for testing for a few years, I would be more than happy to test out his recoil . (shameless plug )



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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577Robert
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Reged: 10/02/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Germany, NRW
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: AR2201]
      #39440 - 21/10/05 04:40 PM

AR2201
I have a new build side by side rifle based on the Merkel 141E action ( 28 gauge shotgun size ) in 9,3x74R with the short barrels that is weighing 3 kilograms. The gun was custom build by Ziegenhahn & Sohn a couple of months ago using the factory Merkel action and barrel and has gotten some nice custom engraving, wood & stock and finish. The rifle carries a Leupold 1,76-6-32 scope in German claw mounts and is regulated for the Blaser CDP 285 grains bullet leaving the short barrels at 675 m/s or 2215 fps.
I can assure you that neither the recoil with or without scope is unpleasant! The rifle is a dream to handle and carry, it is precise like hell and the recoil is more than manageable.
For those who are interested in seeing pictures I can proudly provide them - but need somebody to whom I can send them because I am too stupid to post them here.
Robert


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AR2201
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Reged: 31/08/05
Posts: 57
Loc: Oz
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: NitroX]
      #39447 - 21/10/05 06:36 PM

NitroX

"42 foot pounds, and Recoil Velocity of 20 fps"

So expect about twice a 12ga trap load? OK there it is.

Now if Merkel put the regulation adjustment on the standard 140 (at 7.7lbs starting weight and 24" barrels) it would be sweet as a nut, I could order one right now and be a happy man. But no.

SxS with regulation mechanism options:

Spartan 45/70: will buy one if and when Remington ever pulls is useless stinking head out of its own callus encrusted arse long enough to deign to get them onto the shelves for us poor long suffering customers.

Problem: imaginary

Blaser: these are mocked

Problem: these are mocked

Krieghoff: virtually no information (other than the useless "we're great" crap), don't even know what a base model would cost.

Problem: no info

Merkel: they have all the pieces required, but, they need to combine them properly. The 9.3x74R would not be my first choice as a mountain gun, though 7x65R would be pretty cool, if I wanted a mountain gun.

Problem: not the right configuration of features.

Does anyone know if we have different options for the 141E other than the mountain gun?

Research continues apace.

AR2201
Life grants nothing to us mortals without hard work.


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AR2201
.275 member


Reged: 31/08/05
Posts: 57
Loc: Oz
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: mickey]
      #39449 - 21/10/05 07:30 PM

Mick

I agree with you on the short barrels, good for carrying not shooting, though carrying can be very important.

I prefer longer tubes on my shotguns as I find they swing better (or I swing them better) for running shots. They also hang very much better when shooting on the move.

I can vouch for this with bolt guns as well. All my lever guns are relatively short, so can't compare like with like.

I hope to vouch for it with double rifles in the not too distant future, if the savage gods of commerce ever relent long enough to allow me a gun to buy that I actually want.

AR2201
Never underestimate the power of stupidity or the stupidity of power.


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AR2201
.275 member


Reged: 31/08/05
Posts: 57
Loc: Oz
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: 577Robert]
      #39450 - 21/10/05 07:38 PM

577Robert

Sounds good.

Did it come regulated or did you use the regulation mechanism?

How long did the regulation take you?

How does it group?

AR2201
A goal without a plan is just a wish



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577Robert
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Reged: 10/02/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Germany, NRW
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: AR2201]
      #39451 - 21/10/05 08:13 PM

AR2201
I know I forgot something to add. I was lucky enough to get one barrel set which was produced at the beginning with the fixed muzzle, the old fashioned soldered one.
So it is not adjustable, but Ziegenhahn & Sohn does a very good job on the regulation. With the discribed ammunition 2 right and 2 left will get me a group of 26mm or a little more than an inch at 100 metre with using the scope!
Robert


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: 577Robert]
      #39501 - 22/10/05 11:51 AM

In reply to:

For those who are interested in seeing pictures I can proudly provide them - but need somebody to whom I can send them





Robert

I would love to post your photos on the forum for you.

Send them to:

Photos AT NitroExpress . com




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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577Robert
.224 member


Reged: 10/02/05
Posts: 30
Loc: Germany, NRW
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: NitroX]
      #39684 - 24/10/05 05:08 PM

Hi NitroX
thank you for your kind offer, I have just send you 7 pictures.
Robert


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Photos
.224 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 47
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: 577Robert]
      #40917 - 08/11/05 04:59 AM

In reply to:

577Roberts:

I have a new build side by side rifle based on the Merkel 141E action ( 28 gauge shotgun size ) in 9,3x74R with the short barrels that is weighing 3 kilograms. The gun was custom build by Ziegenhahn & Sohn a couple of months ago using the factory Merkel action and barrel and has gotten some nice custom engraving, wood & stock and finish. The rifle carries a Leupold 1,76-6-32 scope in German claw mounts and is regulated for the Blaser CDP 285 grains bullet leaving the short barrels at 675 m/s or 2215 fps.
















--------------------
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Photos.NitroExpress.com


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Merkel 141E 9.3x74R Weigh too little [Re: AR2201]
      #40969 - 08/11/05 01:22 PM

In reply to:

I have been rummaging around for SxS doubles with a regulation mechanism and turns out Merkel produces one in their new model 141E and it can come in 9.3x74R.

Yes! Yes! Yes! .... its ...its too good to be true.






AR2201 , I'm confused! I didn't know the 141E was so equiped, or in fact why anyone would want the adgustable regulation, it isn't needed on the Merkel SxS double rifles chambered for 9.3X74R. The 286 gr bullet works fine for anything one would use this chambering! The scope bases, and rings are a fine addtion, and the engraveing is very nice as well. However, I couldn't live with those short barrels, or the very (TOO LIGHT)weight.

I have a 9.3X74R mod 140E and it is a full length barreled SxS, with *Ejectors (* the "E", in the modle number) , with 23.6" barrels, and it is not fitted with adjustable regulation.

In reply to:

They have hacked the barrels off at 21.5" (why? doubles are
intrinsically short anyway) and list the weight as 6.6lbs!

Wha? only 6.6lbs for a 9.3x74R but that ....






I believe you have a rifle modified by someone else other than Merkel,or Merkel cut away the solid regulation wedges of the standard barrel group so the adjustment equipment can be installed, hence the short barrels. This is not, as far as I know, a feature offered by Merkel on the 140E, or the 140.1, but may be on the 141E rifles chambered for 9.3X74R. The sights, and quarter rib on your rifle is not typical Merkel either, in any listing I can find from Merkel. The pictures are nice looking, and I'd love to have the QD rings and Bases on my 140E, but I have no use for adjustable regulation, on a SxS double rifle! That's a personal thing and is just me!


My rifle weighs in at 8.3 lbs dry, and no adjustment is necessary, as the rifle shoots 2.5" four shot groups @ 100 yds, right out of the box, with 186 gr RWS ammo, or my Nosler Partition, or Woodliegh soft, and solid handloads. Even at 8.3 lbs, it was necessary to install a Pachmeyr decellarator recoil pad to make the rifle comfortable to shoot. 6.6 lbs

Where did you get the information (A link would be nice) you posted? I know that some of the smaller Merkels have shown up with odd thing made for the European market, but am not aware of the 9.3X74R being included in any adjustable regulation. Of course, this could very well be a new developement that I'm not aware of. I have two SxS Merkel double rifles, The 9.3X74R, 240E, and a Safari 470NE, 140.2, and both are less than five years old. In fact the 470NE is less than a year old.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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