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Deerstalker
.224 member


Reged: 23/03/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro
      #336730 - 18/01/20 03:20 AM

Any experience with these? I suppose the selling point was the third shot that a .450 double rifle didn't have. I rarely see these and those I do are usually in .450/.400. Probably hard on the shoulder in the .450 chambering. I like that it is apenny auction with no reserve.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853244622


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: Deerstalker]
      #336736 - 18/01/20 05:39 AM

Circa 1906 serial number.
Interesting that the original Certus load of 65 Cordite 440 Grain bullet proof has been overstamped and the proof is a Nitro for Black 45 Cordite 365 Grain bullet. Certainly easier on the shoulder.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
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Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: 3DogMike]
      #336743 - 18/01/20 11:35 AM

The Certus does have a following here.

Her's a thread on Ash's 450:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....rt=all&vc=1

I wonder if the barrel was originally a 450/400 barrel and was rebored and reproofed to the light cordite 450 load.
Looks really thin with a LOT of taper at the breech.
Anybody here know what the original Certus proof load was for the 400?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: Huvius]
      #336746 - 18/01/20 01:20 PM

The gun looks like it has had the barrel reblued right over the rust and pitting. Contrary to the description it ain't no cherry.

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: Huvius]
      #336748 - 18/01/20 03:25 PM

Quote:

The Certus does have a following here.

Her's a thread on Ash's 450:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....rt=all&vc=1

I wonder if the barrel was originally a 450/400 barrel and was rebored and reproofed to the light cordite 450 load.
Looks really thin with a LOT of taper at the breech.
Anybody here know what the original Certus proof load was for the 400?



According to the Fleming book the .450 3 1/4 Certus load was 65 Cordite 440 Grain bullet.
The pictures of the barrel do show the original .450EX proof with the 65 Cordite visible but the “440” bullet weight overstamped.
Maybe a later reproof at 45 Cordite and 365 grain bullet because the original Certus load was no longer available and the common 70 Cordite 480 Grain bullet DR and Single shot loading was too much or would not fit in the magazine?
Would have to have the barrel out of the wood to see if their are more marks under the wood.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39059
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: Deerstalker]
      #336751 - 18/01/20 05:50 PM

Quote:

I suppose the selling point was the third shot that a .450 double rifle didn't have.




More likely the selling point, as it still is, is a cheap as ... rifle. That shoots a decent cartridge of the time.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: 3DogMike]
      #336764 - 19/01/20 06:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The Certus does have a following here.

Her's a thread on Ash's 450:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....rt=all&vc=1

I wonder if the barrel was originally a 450/400 barrel and was rebored and reproofed to the light cordite 450 load.
Looks really thin with a LOT of taper at the breech.
Anybody here know what the original Certus proof load was for the 400?



According to the Fleming book the .450 3 1/4 Certus load was 65 Cordite 440 Grain bullet.
The pictures of the barrel do show the original .450EX proof with the 65 Cordite visible but the “440” bullet weight overstamped.
Maybe a later reproof at 45 Cordite and 365 grain bullet because the original Certus load was no longer available and the common 70 Cordite 480 Grain bullet DR and Single shot loading was too much or would not fit in the magazine?
Would have to have the barrel out of the wood to see if their are more marks under the wood.
- Mike





The restamping over a previous proof and then a further NFB proof doesn’t make sense. Why reproof for a lighter load while leaving the heavier proof still there. Or I should say - why reproof for a 440gr (seems to be over the 3** proof) then proof again for a lighter load?

Agreed on the reblueing.

--------------------
.


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: Ash]
      #336771 - 20/01/20 05:57 AM

Quote:

The Certus does have a following here.

The restamping over a previous proof and then a further NFB proof doesn’t make sense. Why reproof for a lighter load while leaving the heavier proof still there. Or I should say - why reproof for a 440gr (seems to be over the 3** proof) then proof again for a lighter load?

Agreed on the reblueing.




My personal opinion is that, for whatever reason, the original proof mark for 65 Cordite 440 bullet was overstamped on the 440 with zeros to obliterate that mark which would have invalidated the proof.
Now ~100 years later it is anyones guess as to why it would have been re stamped with proof for an NfB load.

Also agreed on the reblack.

EDIT: interesting; Cogswell & Harrison indicate 15 January 1903 completion date.

- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 889
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: 3DogMike]
      #336798 - 21/01/20 05:56 AM

Interesting rifle. I have never seen or even heard of these rifles.
I saw another on the following UTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw-og5Vhi5Q

--------------------
RB


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: 3DogMike]
      #336809 - 21/01/20 07:48 AM

Mike - did they say anything else?

--------------------
.


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1404
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: Ash]
      #336812 - 21/01/20 09:37 AM

Quote:

Mike - did they say anything else?



Why, yes they did: .......”£50 for the rest of the info and certificate of provenance”
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: 3DogMike]
      #336813 - 21/01/20 09:51 AM

Haha. Dang that’s steep.

You know you can buy a CZ made .22 stamped C&H Certus, and then pay them a similar fee to enter it in their ledgers? It’s a sad era for C&H..

--------------------
.


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85lc
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Reged: 19/01/18
Posts: 889
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Cogswell&Harrison Certus .450 Nitro [Re: Ash]
      #336847 - 22/01/20 04:21 AM

Interesting article (The Certus rifle, aforgottenpioneer) on this unusual rifle: file:///C:/Users/Admin/Downloads/ci76_rifles.pdf

--------------------
RB


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