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Ripp
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Loc: Montana, USA
30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s???
      #330264 - 18/07/19 10:45 PM

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/...m_campaign=0719


It’s been proclaimed dead, it’s been said that its heyday is past, that it’s yesterday’s news. It’s an old design, and we’ve moved past the Springfield; our new designs are vastly superior, relegating this cartridge to the old folks’ home. I say that nothing could be further from the truth, at least from the hunter’s point of view.

I’ll give you this: the .30-06 Springfield is boring. That statement is not meant to be derogatory; in fact, the opposite is true. The .30-06 Springfield works so well, so reliably, that there really isn’t a whole lot left to be desired. Though it has been with us for over 110 years, it remains the benchmark by which all other .30-caliber cartridges are measured. It’s light enough on the shoulder, yet gives velocities that are nearly perfect for the hunting fields. Its position has been challenged for almost a century, yet when you sit back and look at it, the Springfield gives us exactly what we need.

continued:...

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DarylS
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: Ripp]
      #330273 - 19/07/19 02:57 AM

Old folks home. LOL
I like my "new" '06 but have never shot anything with one. I've always played with .458's & the 14 bore rifle in the past.
That little M70 sure feels good in the hand, though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: DarylS]
      #330292 - 19/07/19 02:44 PM

Quote:

Old folks home. LOL
I like my "new" '06 but have never shot anything with one. I've always played with .458's & the 14 bore rifle in the past.
That little M70 sure feels good in the hand, though.




I picked up a Cooper in '06 a few years back..have not used it yet..but plan to take it to Africa one day..

Personally think it's an awesome caliber

--------------------
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Yochanan
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: Ripp]
      #330309 - 20/07/19 01:50 AM

Typical the flavour of the month article by Philip Massaro, not contributing very much with anyting but marketing. He should consider changing name to Massari

Not like 3006 is new or anything. Yes, people have known for 100 years plus that its a great cartridge.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: Yochanan]
      #330326 - 20/07/19 11:53 AM

Philip is a good guy but he does churn these articles out.

I have several 30 calibres, my customised Parker Hale .30-06 M98, a barrelled action M98 .30-06, a Tikka/Valmet U/O DR .30-06 barrel set, which I have never used o date. I detest people like that, and I have too many rifles un-used or rarely used. And a .308 BLR.

However my .30-6 Customised M98 Parker Hale 1200 HAS been used a hell of a lot. Hundreds of animals. When just out of High School I acquired this rifle, when dis-satisfied with the performance of my .222 Rem 788 on feral goats. It killed them, but too many were wounded and time wasted chasing them up. So I drove down to Adelaide to visit a seller, called "Tony Brown's Mans World", he was a barber, had a leather couch in his shop, sold some 'manly stuff' and believe it or not, had a rifle rack in his shop, with his personal firearms. Imagine that nowadays. Guys would hang out in his "man's world". Smoke and drink beers, while he cut hair. He told me he was selling his .30-06 as he rarely used it. I bought some reloads from him, including 220 gr Normas he had loaded for buffalo. I don't know if he used it on Buffalo.

I planned this rifle as my "international hunting rifle". For deer and feral hunting at home, but also a rifle capable of any medium game hunting anywhere in the world. Also in a cartridge chambering where cartridges could be bought most places in the world if needed.

I shot a lot of feral goats with it in the Northern Flinders Ranges. I remember one nanny, alerted it bounded up and stood on a cliff looking for me out in the wrong direction. I was only 20 metres directly behind it. A 150 gr Speer Hot-Cor or could have been a Nosler Solid Base HP right in the back of the head near the spine joint, caused it head to actually explode, and bits fly up and land in a wide circle all around me. Amazing. Another time some of my more longer range shooting, on the side of an arid mountain, I surprised a herd of goats, they ran and ended up fleeing across a ledgelike pathway in single file. Some 400 metres or yards away, I got behind my day pack, and sniped off goat after goat it falling off dead off the cliff. Until I gut shot one. It fall and lay at the bottom crying out. Could I hit and kill that goat ?!!! No. It took a couple of magazines before it was dead.

Also up there were some donkeys. Donkeys can be tough. Especially with bad idiot shooters like I shot with, I remember one guy managed to hit a donk in the hoof ... that is quite a miss ... I think I finished that one off.

We did bump in some camels as well, but they were too far off. One dickhead did try with his .22/250 ...

Talking about Donkeys, shot quite a few in the Kymberley with this .30-06. Donkeys are tough, but not when brain shot! This rifle was and is accurate.

My first deer, a red stag in North Island NZ, fell to it.

As did my second red stag, a cull from here in SA, a 10 or 11 point red stag.

A number of fallow bucks have fallen to it.

It was the rifle I took over twice when visiting Gryphon, and this rifle took a nice sambar stag.

This rifle travelled over on my first safari to Zimbabwe, for my honeymoon. Shot an impala, duiker, warthog, wildebeest, eland, kudu, and a zebra with it.

I was unhappy with its performance on that trip. The 180 gr Nosler Partitions were a bad batch. I think the front half were exploding in a shallow wound and the rear shank was shooting through like a solid. Caused a lot of problems. Luckily took some 200 gr Nosler Partitions Semi Pointed and they worked so much better, Judea the lead tracker thought t was a different rifle.

What else? A North Island feral Sheep! A ram. Probably other game I am forgetting.

By far, other than my .22 centrefires, it had shot the most game for me. With my .450 No.2 Nitro Express Jeffery double rifle, it is my go to rifle. And probably will stay that way. My M03 8x68S was purchased to replace the .30-06 as my "international hunting rifle" and being a takedown probably will. But not so far. Need a lot more hunting in my life for it to catch up.

This rifle could shoot three shot groups in one .30 calibre hole with the 180 gr Nosler. Or I missed the next two shots, ha ha.

Originally I had a Weaver Steel 4x scope on it, with a tapered post thin crosshair reticle. Was perfect for the rifle, out to any sensible shooting distance on medium sized game. Now a different scope sits on it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: NitroX]
      #330327 - 20/07/19 11:59 AM

Quote:

I have several 30 calibres, my customised Parker Hale .30-06 M98, a barrelled action M98 .30-06, a Tikka/Valmet U/O DR .30-06 barrel set, which I have never used o date. I detest people like that, and I have too many rifles un-used or rarely used. And a .308 BLR.

My M03 8x68S was purchased to replace the .30-06 as my "international hunting rifle" and being a takedown probably will. But not so far. Need a lot more hunting in my life for it to catch up.




BTW I also did have a .30-06 M03 Solid barrel for a period of time. Now owned by another NE member.

AND I did have a Winchester M70 Featherweight in .30-06 for a few months. It was supposed to replace the Parker Hale, but was so incredibly inaccurate. Tried different ammo, special reloads, had it glass bedded, new scope, new mounts, and still shot no better than SIX INCH "GROUPS". It was advertised and sold off without comment, let the buyer beware. Sold it at a big loss. I do hope its new owner found something to fix its problem ... but I think the factory was turning out real crap at the time. No quality control. No doubt the reason the Winchester was sold in a massive sale advertised widely at a cheap price. Winchester and their dealers flogging off crap.

Never owned a Winchester M70 since then.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: NitroX]
      #330339 - 20/07/19 03:32 PM

Hmm - my Winchester M70, built in September 1936, S# 1830 shoots a bit better than that your did, John,, with both 165's and 180Hornady SST's.

yes- I pulled one of the 180's out of the group.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Yochanan
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: DarylS]
      #330349 - 20/07/19 09:58 PM

Personally I prefer 270 or 7mm's over 30 or 8mm. I currently got one 3006 and a Nesika in 308win.. 308win is a "rainy day" rifle that I also use on range. 125-150grain bullets work fine in 308, but, it's not a 3006 loaded with powders like Norma URP. I think 165 is the best bullets weight in my 3006.

Most articles today are nothing but a load of codswallop.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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DarylS
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: Yochanan]
      #330354 - 21/07/19 02:56 AM

The loads above chronographed 2,964fps for the 165gr. and 2,745fps for the 180gr.
24" bl.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: DarylS]
      #330379 - 22/07/19 12:31 AM

The 30-06 is still the most versatile 30 cal ever made. Today I own several rifles of 30 caliber rifles in 6 different 30 cal cartridges. 30-30, 300 savage, 308 Winchester, 30-06, a "hi-bred" 303 British I barreled to use standard 308" bullets and a 300H&H. In addition to the 30s I have now I have had and used 7.5 Swiss, 300 Winchester, 308 Norma, and 30-378 Weatherby.

My experience tells me the 30-06 covers more bases and does more with fewer down sides then any other I have used. The closest "2nd place winner" is the standard 308 Winchester.

If I were forced to own only one 30 cal rifle it would be a 30-06 for sure.

If I were to be forced to own only one rifle from all calibers combined, I would probably still choose the 30-06.

I might choose the 375H&H over the 30-06 if ammo were to be limitless because it extends the power band upward quite a lot, but the accuracy and trajectories of the 3 shells is about equal, easily giving me more range then I like to use anymore, and both shooting under MOA in accuracy. I live around a lot of elk, moose large bears and some buffalo. For 99% of the countries population the argument that may push toward the 375H&H would not exist.

So I have to say the 30-06 is still the best overall round a man can get if he wants one rifle for every purpose.

There is really no such thing as a one-size-fits-all rifle, but the one that comes the closest is a 30-06 in my opinion.

Edited by szihn (22/07/19 12:33 AM)


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xausa
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: szihn]
      #330389 - 22/07/19 05:57 AM

My two favorite .30-'06's: both Oberndorf Mauser sporters built for the export trade and marked "Made in Germany". A Model M which has been reworked by Griffin & Howe with altered bolt handle and G&H side mount, plus a Lyman 48 rear sight, and a Model B sporter, with half octogen/half round barrel and full length integral rib, with a Lyman 35 receiver sight mounted on the bolt stop.









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Ripp
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: szihn]
      #330410 - 22/07/19 09:58 PM

Quote:

The 30-06 is still the most versatile 30 cal ever made. Today I own several rifles of 30 caliber rifles in 6 different 30 cal cartridges. 30-30, 300 savage, 308 Winchester, 30-06, a "hi-bred" 303 British I barreled to use standard 308" bullets and a 300H&H. In addition to the 30s I have now I have had and used 7.5 Swiss, 300 Winchester, 308 Norma, and 30-378 Weatherby.

My experience tells me the 30-06 covers more bases and does more with fewer down sides then any other I have used. The closest "2nd place winner" is the standard 308 Winchester.

If I were forced to own only one 30 cal rifle it would be a 30-06 for sure.

If I were to be forced to own only one rifle from all calibers combined, I would probably still choose the 30-06.

I might choose the 375H&H over the 30-06 if ammo were to be limitless because it extends the power band upward quite a lot, but the accuracy and trajectories of the 3 shells is about equal, easily giving me more range then I like to use anymore, and both shooting under MOA in accuracy. I live around a lot of elk, moose large bears and some buffalo. For 99% of the countries population the argument that may push toward the 375H&H would not exist.

So I have to say the 30-06 is still the best overall round a man can get if he wants one rifle for every purpose.

There is really no such thing as a one-size-fits-all rifle, but the one that comes the closest is a 30-06 in my opinion.





Agree..very well stated..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: xausa]
      #330439 - 23/07/19 10:56 AM

xausa,

You always have such nice and well used rifles. A couple more good ones.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mauserand9mm
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: NitroX]
      #330449 - 23/07/19 01:13 PM

Just bought a chronograph and was keen to see what velocity I am left with in my 16 inch barreled Columbian Mauser (ex-mil). Last weekend factory Federal 150gn PowerShok resulted in 2600fps, down from the 2900fps on their website (22 or 24 inch barrel?). This is still equivalent to the good old 303 though.

Most of the primers of the Federal rounds had backed out and the noise wasn't up to the normal "short barrel boom", so I'm fairly sure that these are ligthly loaded. I'm going to try my reloads this weekend (61gn AR2209 behind a 144gn FMJ) - these make a decent boom & flash.


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Ripp
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #330474 - 23/07/19 11:18 PM

Quote:

Just bought a chronograph and was keen to see what velocity I am left with in my 16 inch barreled Columbian Mauser (ex-mil). Last weekend factory Federal 150gn PowerShok resulted in 2600fps, down from the 2900fps on their website (22 or 24 inch barrel?). This is still equivalent to the good old 303 though.

Most of the primers of the Federal rounds had backed out and the noise wasn't up to the normal "short barrel boom", so I'm fairly sure that these are ligthly loaded. I'm going to try my reloads this weekend (61gn AR2209 behind a 144gn FMJ) - these make a decent boom & flash.




I am guessing the velocities were indeed used from a 24" barrel..very common here in the US..

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DarylS
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #330489 - 24/07/19 01:50 AM

About those primers!. Primers cannot "back out" unless there is excessive headspace, either in the chamber itself or with the ammunition used (shoulders pushed back on rimless ctgs). Low pressure, usually under about 43,000psi will make the excessive headspace visible by the slightly protruding primers. Simply firing a primed case, no powder or bullet will usually shot this trait of sloppy headspace.

If the pressure is higher, there is a tendency for the case to slam back against the bolt face which will re-seat the primer. This re-seating of the primer usually causes excessively flattened primers, misleading the 'shooter' to think the ammunition has excessive pressure, when the pressure could be less than 50,000psi.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mauserand9mm
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: DarylS]
      #330494 - 24/07/19 07:19 AM

I guess the new cases could've been too short in regards to headspace - I hardly ever use Federal factory ammo in anything so don't know what they are like in general. I was surprised at how lightly loaded they were though.

I've never checked the headspace on the rifle. I've only used factory PMC ammo through it and it was fine. My reloads are also fine and I get excellent case life (30+ reloads) with minimal case stretch and no signs of incipent head separation - the brass gets tossed when the necks split. I also reload a swag of hand me down brass in it of unknown usage history - got given to me for free. This stuff is also going well.

(Some have the headstamp "DAG" - who made this and when?)


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mauserand9mm
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #330499 - 24/07/19 11:14 AM

Actually I did check headspace (on all my ex-mil rifles) by using tape spacers on the back of a factory round and seeing how hard it was to close the bolt against. I got shot down by someone once who said it was a stupid way to do it and tape was compressible, so I don't mention it anymore.

As a benchmark, the number of layers of tape corresponded to that on a factory round in my Remington 700 308. Of course this assumes that the factory round has the correct headspace dimensions.


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DarylS
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #330523 - 25/07/19 02:20 AM

Yes it compresses, but, tape can certainly give an "Idea" of what is going on. 2 layers of say, masking tape, should be heavily marked or scrubbed off, imo.
Tape should not be used as a headspace gauge. If lacking the proper headspace gauge, I use the brass I am going to use.

As to the Federal factory ammo being or having excessive headspace as received, I've not seen this myself.

It is producing low pressure (and some headspace slop on that ammo) if the primers are backed out after firing.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: DarylS]
      #330546 - 25/07/19 02:41 PM

The .30-06 Springfield is the only cartridge to have a day named after it. It should be a public holiday!

Every 30 of June, the end of the Financial Year in some parts of the world like Australia, it should be a day of celebration of the .30-06.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mauserand9mm
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: NitroX]
      #330559 - 25/07/19 04:34 PM

But not for the those in the US, because it's 06/30 to them

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Ripp
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #330570 - 25/07/19 10:31 PM

Quote:

But not for the those in the US, because it's 06/30 to them






#TRUTH

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: Ripp]
      #330572 - 26/07/19 01:59 AM

Let's see, on forms Year-Day-Month - so XXXX-30-06

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Homer
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: DarylS]
      #330663 - 28/07/19 07:13 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Thanks for sharing Ripp.

Only an idiot or sombody trying to sell a magazine etc, would claim the .30-06 to be Dead!

In modern firearms and with modern and controlled expansion bullets (and other cartridge components) the .30-06, the 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57 and a heap of similarly old cartridges, are better than their now deceased designers, could have ever imagined.

I'll leave it at that ..........................

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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mauserand9mm
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Re: 30-06-Springfield-vs-all-other-30s??? [Re: Homer]
      #330664 - 28/07/19 07:21 PM

Crono update...

Tried some Winchester factory 150gn Super-X - same velocity as the Federal factories: 2600 fps, but primers did not back out. Maybe the Federals were "undersized" headspace-wise. I've got some left over live rounds that I'll do the tape headspace check on (eventually).

My 144gn FMJ reloads did 2625 fps average, but with the added boom and flash. I originally had the crono about 2 m (6 ft) in front of the muzzle but it got knocked about a bit from the blast, and the first 2 readings were in the order of 6400 fps! I shifted it out to 3 m (9 ft) and it worked alright there.


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