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Ripp, thanks for posting. That is interesting. I also believe it is a good step in the right direction.

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The 6.5 CM has a little more velocity than the 280 British (1945), or the earlier 276 Pedersen (1923) cartridges. Not a lot is new in the world of firearms. The quality of the brass, and projectiles has improved dramatically however.

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The new rifle I see is still based on the Rem 700 Action. The Nightforce scopes are rugged as you can get.

I thought they might have gone with the new Hornady 30 round but staying with the tried and proven 300Win Mag.

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From what I hear and read--they are also going to use them in 6.5 Creedmoor--there is a 6 page article about it in this months GUNS AND AMMO

A lot of gun guys I visit with tell me Rem actions are one of the easiest actions to get to shoot well mostly because of the design..have several customs built on them and they are true one holers..

Agree on the Nightforce as well..great scopes..bomb proof or aweful close--my only complaint is weight--will not use them on my mtn rifles..but all others, absolutely..have one on my .338 Lapua--works very well in all aspects..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (29/12/18 11:14 AM)

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The new rifle I see is still based on the Rem 700 Action. The Nightforce scopes are rugged as you can get.

I thought they might have gone with the new Hornady 30 round but staying with the tried and proven 300Win Mag.

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From what I hear and read--they are also going to use them in 6.5 Creedmoor--there is a 6 page article about it in this months GUNS AND AMMO

A lot of gun guys I visit with tell me Rem actions are one of the easiest actions to get to shoot well mostly because of the design..have several customs built on them and they are true one holers..

Agree on the Nightforce as well..great scopes..bomb proof or aweful close--my only complaint is weight--will not use them on my mtn rifles..but all others, absolutely..have one on my .338 Lapua--works very well in all aspects..

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I was wondering if they were going down the 6.5CM path with the new rifle as well.

Agree about the 700 Action. have a Nightforce NXS on one of my general hunting rifles. Very good gear.

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The second article seems most informative as it make it clear this only a call for prototype, not adaptation of any specific cartridge or weapon.

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6.5 CM.

The final vindication of the 6.5 Italian Carcano!!

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6.5 CM.

The final vindication of the 6.5 Italian Carcano!!

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What seems to be overlooked by many is the results the Allied soldiers found during the war. It was often said by Aussie Diggers that if the Japs used a 303 round and not the 6.5 many more Diggers would be dead or not fit to return to service when finally discharged from recovery wards. The Japs must have thought the same as they went to the 7.7 round.

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It's an interesting suggestion!!

No idea about the Digger accounts, but bullets make a difference and certainly in the old style round nose long heavy bullets less effective wounding would be likely. US Army testing cited by Genl Julian Hatcher in the pre-war era definitively demonstrated the ".256" {6.5} caliber to produce far more traumatic wounds in pig and other livestock testing. This with, IIRC, a 123 or so Spitzer bullet. Roy Dunlap more or less praised the 6.5 Jap caliber and Lt Col John George in his famous "Shots Fired in Anger" stated the Jap 6.5 was "entirely adequate in mankilling".

The move to the 7.7 in Jap service has been described being done for advantages in larger volume for tracing material and of course in the heavier bullet ball cartridge more effective penetration of "soft" obstacles {wood barriers, building materials, etc}.

George praises the Jap 6.5 for its ease of shooting and he himself carried a Jap carbine for a while. It's shootability alone might have claimed more lives than its more diminutive ballistics lost, if the latter actually occurred. He is dead right about the shootability. Almost zero recoil. We have a Jap 6.5 Arisaka and I used it to place very high against modern, topline AR's on the ARFCOM SHTF Challenge with shooting of 15 shots in 3 minutes, field positions-only, no prone, no sling at 100 meters in spite of the need to reload the 5-shot mag by hand {no clips} versus the AR's with no need to reload at all. As a combat weapon the Jap 6.5 would be hard to beat among the bolt guns. A Lee-Enfield with a 10 or 12 shot mag in 6.5 Jap or Carcano would be the Cat's Rat!!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Articles proclaiming this and that are abundant, but I can't see 5.56 being dumped any time soon for general issue. At least not till a good polymer-cased round is selected?? Metal-cased ammo has pretty much run its course and is at an evolutionary dead end. For all the whining done about the 5.56, all of the advantages that encouraged its adoption in the first place still apply and Big Army still knows that. So do its downsides of course.

Since the acquisition rules changes some years ago, various .mil organizations will continue to pick and choose what they like and run with them, with civilian projects glomming on to proclaim "adoption by the military" to help market their product.

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Articles proclaiming this and that are abundant, but I can't see 5.56 being dumped any time soon for general issue. At least not till a good polymer-cased round is selected?? Metal-cased ammo has pretty much run its course and is at an evolutionary dead end. For all the whining done about the 5.56, all of the advantages that encouraged its adoption in the first place still apply and Big Army still knows that. So do its downsides of course.

Since the acquisition rules changes some years ago, various .mil organizations will continue to pick and choose what they like and run with them, with civilian projects glomming on to proclaim "adoption by the military" to help market their product.

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Another huge consideration/advantage of the polymer case is weight being carried by the individual soldier..huge difference in weight between the two..metal vs polymer..

http://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/true-velocitys-new-polymer-cased-ammunition/247607

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Ripp that is, to my limited knowledge of caseless ammo, one of the main reasons for going to it. That is along with saving raw materials (brass) and the weight & volume for transport.

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Articles proclaiming this and that are abundant, but I can't see 5.56 being dumped any time soon for general issue. At least not till a good polymer-cased round is selected?? Metal-cased ammo has pretty much run its course and is at an evolutionary dead end. For all the whining done about the 5.56, all of the advantages that encouraged its adoption in the first place still apply and Big Army still knows that. So do its downsides of course.

Since the acquisition rules changes some years ago, various .mil organizations will continue to pick and choose what they like and run with them, with civilian projects glomming on to proclaim "adoption by the military" to help market their product.

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Another huge consideration/advantage of the polymer case is weight being carried by the individual soldier..huge difference in weight between the two..metal vs polymer..

http://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/true-velocitys-new-polymer-cased-ammunition/247607

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Ripp that is, to my limited knowledge of caseless ammo, one of the main reasons for going to it. That is along with saving raw materials (brass) and the weight & volume for transport.

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Weight savings of ammo has always been of extreme importance in the development of cartridge ammunition.

But it brings along with it problems. Notably a reduction in penetration of many obstacles, remembering that military weapons are not merely designed for killing and/or incapacitating enemy combatants. Small arms are also used for signalling, breaching of walls, etc. I used to have a USMC data sheet citing the number of rounds needed to create shooting slits/loopholes, manholes, etc thru various types of construction materials, listing the various calibers.

Anyway, the polymer cased stuff has its upside and downsides, too. It has been challenged by issues involving handling proof and overheating of automatic weapons {doesn't remove heat like brass cases do}. They'll get that stuff sorted out and then we will see excuses made for reduced economies of scale when the technology hits the commercial market and prices for brass cases for our favorite ammo and reloading skyrocket!! Just wait!

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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