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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Rothhammer1
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Loc: The Redwoods of California
Aussie Copper for M1910
      #305959 - 03/10/17 07:50 PM

Hello, all.

Has anybody used the Aussie Copper Projectiles (ACP) .375 285 grain bullet to reload for a Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 9.5X57 (.375 Nitro Express Rimless 2.25")?

I am looking for a lead free projectile that will perform well and will cycle properly in the Schoenauer magazine and am wondering if this has the necessary 'meat' toward the nose (as RN do) to function smoothly in the rotary mag.

Brian Rothhammer

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Rule303
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #305960 - 03/10/17 09:26 PM

They were a darn good projectile. They are no longer being made as the owner, original designer has had his dealers licence pulled and the ASIC has shut him down. Owes a lot of people money. I believe a class action has been started against him.

Shame as I really liked those projectiles.

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rule303]
      #305995 - 04/10/17 05:54 PM

Are you certain we're referring to the same firm?

Some of their products are presently available in the U.S. from Graf & Sons.

I made enquiry with Aussie Copper Projectiles via their website on Monday, 02 October, and received a prompt reply from their Company Director, Mark Savage.

Unfortunately, Mr. Savage did not have any direct experience using his products with the Mannlicher Schoenauer nor any feedback to share from MS shooters who have.

Has anyone here used them in an M1910?

Has anyone here used any currently available .375 (9.5mm) non lead projectile that performs well and cycles flawlessly through the Schoenauer magazine?

BR.

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #305997 - 04/10/17 09:04 PM

The ACP .375 270 grain Thunder looks like it would work in a Mannlicher.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Rule303
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Posts: 5062
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #305998 - 04/10/17 09:38 PM

Quote:

Are you certain we're referring to the same firm?

Some of their products are presently available in the U.S. from Graf & Sons.

I made enquiry with Aussie Copper Projectiles via their website on Monday, 02 October, and received a prompt reply from their Company Director, Mark Savage.

Unfortunately, Mr. Savage did not have any direct experience using his products with the Mannlicher Schoenauer nor any feedback to share from MS shooters who have.

Has anyone here used them in an M1910?

Has anyone here used any currently available .375 (9.5mm) non lead projectile that performs well and cycles flawlessly through the Schoenauer magazine?

BR.



Very certain. I know the bloke personally. I would not trust him as far as I can throw Ayers Rock.

PM sent.

For others. Mr. Savage has had his projectile manufacturing business and others closed by the the Australian Government department responsible for this. Grafs and Sons no longer deal with him. They are currently trying to clear what stocks they have and will not be selling any more.

He was a mate until his true character came to light.

Like I said, excellent projectiles, I love them.

I caution anybody about ordering and paying for anything before you receive it. Too many have already done this and are now chasing their product/money. Once again this is in the public domain.

John if you need me to explain further just send me a PM.

I have said nothing that can not be proven or is already in open domain.


Edited by Rule303 (04/10/17 09:56 PM)

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rule303]
      #309332 - 22/12/17 09:28 PM

The Aussie Copper ACP 375285 will not work with the Schoenauer magazine.

I finally bought some and on receiving them instantly saw that they are spire point (not somewhat rounded and fuller toward the tip as their photographs suggest). They also are .374, not .375.

These were the ACP .375 285 Sidewinder. The Thunderer was not available from Graf & Sons, from whom I had ordered.

I called Graf & Sons and they issued a return authorization (for refund), no muss, no fuss.




The ad. showed this (may have worked with MS).


They arrived like this.

So, for future reference, Aussie Copper ACP375285 will not feed in a M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer magazine. They could be used as a single shot proposition.

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #309333 - 22/12/17 09:32 PM

Quote:

The ACP .375 270 grain Thunder looks like it would work in a Mannlicher.

Waidmannsheil.



Where can they be found?

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kuduae
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309336 - 23/12/17 01:08 AM

I simply use Barnes .375", 235gr TSX FB bullets, #30486 or 37662, seated out to an oal of 77.5 mm = 3.05", in front of 55 gr VV N140. They function quite wellin my M1910 M-Sch and do the job killing game.These pointed bullets will not work as well if seated deeper.

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Rule303
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309374 - 23/12/17 04:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The ACP .375 270 grain Thunder looks like it would work in a Mannlicher.

Waidmannsheil.



Where can they be found?



It appears he has started up again. All I will say is buyer beware.

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: kuduae]
      #309378 - 23/12/17 07:20 PM

Quote:

I simply use Barnes .375", 235gr TSX FB bullets, #30486 or 37662,



Your input is always welcome and valued, sir, as I have read of your experience with and use of the M1910.

I have 400 or so 270 grain rnsp (as Hornady 3715) for sighting in and 'paper punching', but live in an area where any lead projectiles are now banned for hunting. Mere possession of ammunition with a trace of lead that will chamber in a firearm one is carrying or has access to while hunting here is now verboten.

Hence my quest is for a non - lead projectile of the same profile (or very close to it) as DWM 531, preferably 270 grain.




Now that I've looked at my reloading components, I see that I have a box (50) of Barnes .375, 270 gr TSX FB (#30489). Those 235 grain TSX FB (#30486) cycle through your magazine? I hadn't thought of running them out to 3.05"... I'll have to try it!

Anything even approximating a 'spire', or any significant taper, that I have tried in the past jammed in mine. The old Hornady 3715 works flawlessly.

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DarylS
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309393 - 24/12/17 03:20 AM

That's too bad, Roth - the 270gr. Hornady was an excellent bullet, only overshadowed on elk by the 270g.Win. PP.

I note the measurements are almost identical to what a .375x57mm Ack.IMP would be.

In a Mauser action like a Mk. 10, that round would make about 2,300fps+ change with a 300gr. & 2,500fps with a 270 and quite easily I expect.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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kuduae
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: DarylS]
      #309406 - 24/12/17 06:11 AM

Quote:

I have 400 or so 270 grain rnsp (as Hornady 3715) for sighting in and 'paper punching', but live in an area where any lead projectiles are now banned for hunting. Mere possession of ammunition with a trace of lead that will chamber in a firearm one is carrying or has access to while hunting here is now verboten. Hence my quest is for a non - lead projectile of the same profile (or very close to it) as DWM 531, preferably 270 grain.


Me too. As I hunt the Lower Saxony state forests, I had to use "unleaded " bullets for 4 years now. I too have used the 270 gr Hornady RNs and still have several hundreds stored away. But by regulations I was forced to change to an available pure copper bullet. As I found, the Barnes TTX bullets have a "curvy", tangent ogive point with a small "flat" hollow point. If seated out to the max oal the M1910 magazine allows, the bullets are held reasonably close to the follower spindle by the bullet guide. Yes, my loads work in the M1910 magazine. Granted, the Hornady RNs worked a bit smoother, but there is little choice now.
Such pure copper bullets are much longer than conventional lead core ones of the same weight. The 235 gr TTX is longer than the 270gr RN, but seated out in the 9x57 M-S = .375 Rimless NE it just fills the case neck. The longer 270 gr TSX protudes into the case body, eating up powder space. So I could not load more than 50 gr N140 behind the 270 gr TTX, giving away a lot of velocity. My load, with the 235 gr TTX in front of 55 gr N140, reads out 2400 fps from my 50 cm = 20" barrel over my chrony.

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: DarylS]
      #309431 - 24/12/17 02:15 PM

Quote:

That's too bad, Roth - the 270gr. Hornady was an excellent bullet, only overshadowed on elk by the 270g.Win. PP.

I note the measurements are almost identical to what a .375x57mm Ack.IMP would be.

In a Mauser action like a Mk. 10, that round would make about 2,300fps+ change with a 300gr. & 2,500fps with a 270 and quite easily I expect.






From the 1939 Stoeger

More:


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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: kuduae]
      #309432 - 24/12/17 02:50 PM




As I found, the Barnes TTX bullets have a "curvy", tangent ogive point with a small "flat" hollow point. If seated out to the max oal the M1910 magazine allows, the bullets are held reasonably close to the follower spindle by the bullet guide. Yes, my loads work in the M1910 magazine. Granted, the Hornady RNs worked a bit smoother, but there is little choice now.
Such pure copper bullets are much longer than conventional lead core ones of the same weight. The 235 gr TTX is longer than the 270gr RN, but seated out in the 9x57 M-S = .375 Rimless NE it just fills the case neck. The longer 270 gr TSX protudes into the case body, eating up powder space. So I could not load more than 50 gr N140 behind the 270 gr TTX, giving away a lot of velocity. My load, with the 235 gr TTX in front of 55 gr N140, reads out 2400 fps from my 50 cm = 20" barrel over my chrony.



Thank you so much, Kuduae.

This is exactly the information I have been looking for, and from a trusted source.

Mine is an M1910 of the Steyr 'Takedown' configuration.


Surely, you'll recognize this (your own M1910).


Here's mine (Granddad with M1910 at center).

Have you, by chance, any experience using IMR4895 with the barnes copper projectiles? I had been running 42 grains of it behind the Hornady 3715. It's been some time since I reloaded, but I have recently laid in a supply of the IMR. Perhaps I can find a 'conversion' for (x)N140 = (x)IMR4895.

Again, I thank you sincerely for the reply and valued information,
Brian Rothhammer

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DarylS
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309435 - 24/12/17 04:10 PM

For hunting in California - heat,perhaps, H4895 is a better choice as it is more temperature stable.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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paradox_
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: DarylS]
      #309436 - 24/12/17 04:43 PM

Thank you gentleman.
I have 1910 on the way, a 24inch barrel with full wood stock. I have a good supply of Hornady 270gr, and can use lead bullets. I appreciate the Barnes information as an option.

Thank you
Eric

--------------------
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Rothhammer1
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: paradox_]
      #309437 - 24/12/17 05:01 PM

Quote:

Thank you gentleman.
I have 1910 on the way, a 24inch barrel with full wood stock. I have a good supply of Hornady 270gr, and can use lead bullets. I appreciate the Barnes information as an option.

Thank you
Eric



Quality Cartridge (Qual-Cart) has new made, 9.5X57 headstamped brass. Midway sells it, as does Graf & Sons.


If you form your own, you may wish to avoid 8X57 or the other 'X57' cases (unless you're going to draw them out straight first) as they'll have a lower, narrower shoulder. A regular FL die set will not quite reach the shoulder and you may end up with excessive headspace.

I have used .35 Whelen through RCBS dies in the past with excellent results. They require a good trim, of course, but otherwise a 'piece of cake'.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309438 - 24/12/17 05:12 PM

These look interesting.

From Cutting Edge Bullets:


Link:
web page

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paradox_
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309440 - 24/12/17 06:03 PM

Good to know Rothhammer...Thank you

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Rothhammer1
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: paradox_]
      #309444 - 24/12/17 08:45 PM

Watch midway for these (click link below). They appear and disappear (not available now) from their 'site.

I bought 400 at 28.5 cents (US) each in Sept. of '15.

They're sold as 'seconds', but those that I received are identical to Hornady 3715 and the only 'blem' found is that a few have dark cannelures.

Click link below:

web page

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kuduae
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309445 - 24/12/17 09:08 PM

Quote:

Have you, by chance, any experience using IMR4895 with the barnes copper projectiles? I had been running 42 grains of it behind the Hornady 3715. It's been some time since I reloaded, but I have recently laid in a supply of the IMR. Perhaps I can find a 'conversion' for (x)N140 = (x)IMR4895.


No, sorry! The other way around, I sometimes used 4895 data with N140 when nothing was available. Afaik N140 is just a bit slower burning, so reduce my load by about 5%.
I started using VV N140 about 50 years ago, when it was still named "Kemira 16" and came in small 200g, yellow tins. It was then the only rifle powder available to me. Later, the Vihtavuori powders were less pricy than all others and, even more important, always available locally. So there never was a reason to change a winning team. Additionally, here in Germany you are only allowed to store up to 3 kg = 6.6 lb powder at home. This makes experimenting with different brands of similar properties a bit difficult.
BTW, N140 being "temperature sensitive" is new to me.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: paradox_]
      #309447 - 24/12/17 09:22 PM

All this stuff about jurisdictions banning lead core bullets is a worry. Eventually the antis will cause it to spread everywhere or far more widely. A load of BS IMO, just to make life difficult for some tiny little reason.

But alas must be accomodated when the laws change ...

I do like this thread. I am supposed to have a 9.5x57 MS rifle on its way to me oneday, if it can be arranged. So if it ever arrives, these discussions are also very useful for me.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Viking338
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #309458 - 25/12/17 03:00 AM

Quote:

These look interesting.

From Cutting Edge Bullets:


Link:
<a href="cuttingedgebullets.com/375-235gr-er-extended-range-raptor" target="_blank">web page</a>




Yes and I think some, if not those particular ones you reverse and use them as solids. Never tried them but did read about them.

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DarylS
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: Viking338]
      #309461 - 25/12/17 05:07 AM

I would think the Speer 235gr. could also be a good one for the 9.5x56/7.

Sized down for the 9.3, it impressed 9.3x57 a great deal in his penetration tests, me too. Seems quite a tough bullet now, if started about 2,450fps or so. No breakup and matched penetration of the Swift A-Frame from a .375 at 2,450fps.

Buddy of mine up here has, over the years shot a bunch of moose with the 235gr. Speer - mostly broadside with them from a .375H&H - terrific performance, all balled up expanded totally on the off side hide and dead moose. No breakup. Keith was driving them full speed ahead - at 2,900fps most likely. He got 3,000fps from the 9.3x68 I made up.
In those days, he relished on long range moose in the cut blocks so normal ranges would be 100 to 400yards more than likely.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: Aussie Copper for M1910 [Re: DarylS]
      #309464 - 25/12/17 05:25 AM

This place for those of you in the States. They do not ship to Canada.

http://www.shootersproshop.com/shooters-pro-shop.html

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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